Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients.)) DjD: There are 2 categories or types of antidepressants Straterra falls into only 1. I am a bipolar patient, and have no idea how any bipolar can have a minic cycle. a bipolar cycle, yes. ((No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar.)) DjD: Ref:: In general, psychiatrists should be cautious in prescribing antidepressants for patients with bipolar disorder. However, as some bipolar patients continue to develop depression despite optimal use of mood stabilizers, antidepressants are often necessary for acute and/or prophylactic treatment. Patients who require antidepressant treatment should receive the lowest effective dose for the shortest time necessary. REF: The National Mental Health Association, The American Psychiatric Association, and The National Institute of Mental Health, Office of Communications and Public Liaison, in joint effort for, The Presidents Commission On Mental Health, 2003. Bad advise is worst than none at all. DjD Um, okay, one poster accused me of potentially "targeting" this post to someone on this list.
Who did that? I don’t recall seeing any accusations. That poster also claimed that no one on this list has complained of Straterra making their mania worse. I suggested reading this list more often, and responding less.
(a) The medium by which you are communicating is not a "list", it is a USENET newsgroup. (b) I read it daily and I have seen no mention of Strattera having any effect on "mania". Now it might be that one of the trolls who I long since killfiled may have made such claims, if so I would not have seen them, not that I really care what the trolls think. If such claims have been made on alt.support.attn-deficit I for one would take it kindly if you would provide a link. Second of all, it’s not bad advise to try to stabalize the bipolar in a patient first. One poster’s response to mine was that his doctor wanted to do this before trying Straterra. And Joseph Biederman, MD, of MGH’s Pediatric Psychopharmacology Department, has said this time and again– that doctors need to be cautious about bipolar patients who present with ADD as a comorbid state (he believes that the two are likely comorbid states, and argues against one poster’s response to my post claiming there are often times where one state mimics the other). Why to be cautious? Because antidepressants, as he said psychiatrists have recently noted over the years, do induce bipolar in many bipolar patients.
Has anybody disagreed with you on this point? And yes, Straterra was developed by Lilly as an antidepressant… and yes, every drug is unique. Unique means not the same; different. No one can claim two drugs are the same. Seriously, I am armcharing this post, but so is this pathetic criticism, which carries far less basis than my post ever did. Institutional consensus statements overrule the world’s leader in pediatric psychopharmacology when he discusses recent findings of how antidepressants work in bipolar + ADD kids?
Any given individual can be wrong even if he is the top man in his field of expertise. I think not, considering these consensus statements are evolving documents that eventually stem from a single researcher’s novel findings at some point in time, and as a result are often outdated.
Huh? Consensus statements are the conclusions drawn by a group of researchers based on the best available information. "A single researcher’s novel findings" will not appear in a consensus statement unless they are accepted by the community of researchers as being valid, which generally won’t occur unless they have been replicated. But, yeah, if anyone wants to argue against the notion that your ADD doesn’t make you irritable, post away.
Uh, what does this have to do with anything? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
That poster also claimed that no one on this list has complained of Straterra making their mania worse. I suggested reading this list more often, and responding less. (a) The medium by which you are communicating is not a "list", it is a USENET newsgroup. (b) I read it daily and I have seen no mention of Strattera having any effect on "mania". Now it might be that one of the trolls who I long since killfiled may have made such claims, if so I would not have seen them, not that I really care what the trolls think. If such claims have been made on alt.support.attn-deficit I for one would take it kindly if you would provide a link.
I’m surprised this hasn’t come up on asa-d … I read a number of different fora on the internet, and have seen many reports of Strattera apparently activating mania or producing adverse reactions in those with diagnosed or previously undiagnosed bipolar. I don’t know how much there is in terms of published research, but we saw a series or anecdotal reports from parents of children on several boards I read. One mother in particular was pushing strattera aggressively for children with tics on a message board I monitor, and back then, I found links to a web forum on adhd.com that contained numerous reports of apparent activation of mania. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubM… http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum99/HTML/004612.html hmmmmm … most interesting … the plot thickens. OK, I’ve been searching around for quite a while looking for all of the old reports on strattera I had seen on the adhd.com forum, and guess what … they’re gone … so I googled the username of the person who I knew was most actively pushing strattera on TS fora, and found that … the old adhd.com message boards were sponsored by Lilly, and have been removed … they contained a number of negative reports, which are now … gone. The people I was aware of who were pushing strattera for persons with tics have now started their own boards in support of strattera, but the old boards with all of the negative comments about strattera appear to have been removed by Lilly, at least according to this site: http://www.freewebs.com/sierra_ca/ QUOTE Alert! The ADHD.COM web forums have closed down. There are three new web forums being run by the adhd.com gang http://adhdsupport.proboards23.com/index.cgi Miller Mom’s Site http://millermom.proboards23.com/ Main focus is on medications and education. More for parents of ADHD children than for ADHD adults. Miller Mom’s ongoing research and knowledge sharing about Strattera is continuing here. ENDQUOTE ADHD.com is owned by Eli Lilly. — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That poster also claimed that no one on this list has complained of Straterra making their mania worse. I suggested reading this list more often, and responding less. (a) The medium by which you are communicating is not a "list", it is a USENET newsgroup. (b) I read it daily and I have seen no mention of Strattera having any effect on "mania". Now it might be that one of the trolls who I long since killfiled may have made such claims, if so I would not have seen them, not that I really care what the trolls think. If such claims have been made on alt.support.attn-deficit I for one would take it kindly if you would provide a link. I’m surprised this hasn’t come up on asa-d … I read a number of different fora on the internet, and have seen many reports of Strattera apparently activating mania or producing adverse reactions in those with diagnosed or previously undiagnosed bipolar. I don’t know how much there is in terms of published research, but we saw a series or anecdotal reports from parents of children on several boards I read. One mother in particular was pushing strattera aggressively for children with tics on a message board I monitor, and back then, I found links to a web forum on adhd.com that contained numerous reports of apparent activation of mania.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubM… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum99/HTML/004612.html hmmmmm … most interesting … the plot thickens. OK, I’ve been searching around for quite a while looking for all of the old reports on strattera I had seen on the adhd.com forum, and guess what … they’re gone … so I googled the username of the person who I knew was most actively pushing strattera on TS fora, and found that … the old adhd.com message boards were sponsored by Lilly, and have been removed … they contained a number of negative reports, which are now … gone. The people I was aware of who were pushing strattera for persons with tics have now started their own boards in support of strattera, but the old boards with all of the negative comments about strattera appear to have been removed by Lilly, at least according to this site: http://www.freewebs.com/sierra_ca/ QUOTE Alert! The ADHD.COM web forums have closed down. There are three new web forums being run by the adhd.com gang http://adhdsupport.proboards23.com/index.cgi Miller Mom’s Site http://millermom.proboards23.com/ Main focus is on medications and education. More for parents of ADHD children than for ADHD adults. Miller Mom’s ongoing research and knowledge sharing about Strattera is continuing here. ENDQUOTE ADHD.com is owned by Eli Lilly.
I find it interesting that none of these people have commented here or if they have they’ve X-noarchived–why people insist on using private services that operate at the whim of a single supporting organization when there’s a USENET newsgroup that is almost unkillable is beyond me. Admittedly the signal to noise ratio here has been pretty low of late but that’s what filters are for. I checked, found 774 posts on ASAD that contain the word "Strattera", 21 that contain "Strattera" and "mania", and none other than the ones in this thread that say that Strattera has anything to do with mania–the closest anybody came was a general note that antidepressants may excite mania in people with bipolar. Note by the way that I am not in any way defending Strattera–I had a _very_ bad experience with it that you can find with google groups. — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
I find it interesting that none of these people have commented here or if they have they’ve X-noarchived–why people insist on using private services that operate at the whim of a single supporting organization when there’s a USENET newsgroup that is almost unkillable is beyond me. Admittedly the signal to noise ratio here has been pretty low of late but that’s what filters are for.
I agree, and was quite surprised to find you saying it hasn’t come up here, because it is all over other message boards (AOL message boards, MGH, and various private message boards). And yet, I’m still not aware of published studies. The unfortunate fact is how many people have given up on Usenet as a source of support and information, and are now receiving sometimes only "censored" or highly-monitored or highly-biased information from other sources. Many newcomers don’t stick around long enough even to figure out what a filter is or why they should use it or why Usenet is a superior source of information once you figure out how to use the killfile. I checked, found 774 posts on ASAD that contain the word "Strattera", 21 that contain "Strattera" and "mania", and none other than the ones in this thread that say that Strattera has anything to do with mania–the closest anybody came was a general note that antidepressants may excite mania in people with bipolar.
I kill many threads here because of the noise ratio, but I’m still quite surprised this has never come up here. A possibility (??) — because Strattera was pushed as an alternative to stimulants in those who still believe that stimulants can’t be used in the presence of tics, perhaps there was much more hype about Strattera on some of the TS boards I read; hence, more reports about strattera? In particular, it was aggressively pushed on a message board I monitor, so I followed the topic and found all of the reports of adverse reactions, and have taken note of many reports on the AOL ADHD message boards. Note by the way that I am not in any way defending Strattera–I had a _very_ bad experience with it that you can find with google groups.
I have heard of relatively few good experiences. My feelers went up a long time ago, because of how many negative reports I read about in the community of TS patients who rushed out to try the new drug which allegedly didn’t exacerbate tics. I think it was a very well marketed drug, and at least in TS circles, a lot of hype was created because it allegedly doesn’t exacerbate tics. I just find it even more interesting that ADHD.com ditched their message boards, where a lot of the adverse reactions were reported. It is reminiscent of what happened with the way Inversine was marketed aggressively via the internet to TS patients a few years back … http://pub23.ezboard.com/ftourettesyndromenowwhatfrm5.showMessage?top… One poster (who turned out to be a drug company rep) was pushing Inversine on the internet (MGH) in spite of no credible evidence (to date) in support of it for tics. One person was also pushing Strattera on TS message boards. It was interesting … — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
Response:
OK, I’ve been searching around for quite a while looking for all of the old reports on strattera
Atomoxetine (Strattera) is a new name. The old name was Tomoxetine. Reports of Strattera activating mania go all the way back to 1985. Case report of atomoxetine (formerly called tomoxetine) setting off mania (Steinberg & Chouinard, Am J Psychiatry. 1985 Dec;142(12):1517-8)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’ve been searching around for quite a while looking for all of the old reports on strattera Atomoxetine (Strattera) is a new name. The old name was Tomoxetine. Reports of Strattera activating mania go all the way back to 1985. Case report of atomoxetine (formerly called tomoxetine) setting off mania (Steinberg & Chouinard, Am J Psychiatry. 1985 Dec;142(12):1517-8)
That may be the case, but there are only four posts on USENET containing the words "tomoxetine" and "mania"–two are on the manic-depression newsgroup, one is on sci.med.pharmacy, and the fourth is the post to which I am responding. Since ADHD is not manic-depression or "mania" of any form I am a bit puzzled as to why you are bringing this wondrous dose of enlightenment to an ADHD newsgroup instead of one where there might be some significant number of participants for whom this is a serious issue. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Atomoxetine (Strattera) is a new name. The old name was Tomoxetine. Reports of Strattera activating mania go all the way back to 1985. Case report of atomoxetine (formerly called tomoxetine) setting off mania (Steinberg & Chouinard, Am J Psychiatry. 1985 Dec;142(12):1517-8)
Correct … I was looking specifically for the reports from the ADHD.com website message boards, which were made after the product was launched with the Strattera name, and which were under threads titled as such. There were two particular threads (pros and cons, started by a "pro" mom, who got a surprise with the number of "con" reports) which detailed a number of adverse reactions in one place. I’m not surprised that Eli Lilly decided to take down the forum. — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’ve been searching around for quite a while looking for all of the old reports on strattera Atomoxetine (Strattera) is a new name. The old name was Tomoxetine. Reports of Strattera activating mania go all the way back to 1985. Case report of atomoxetine (formerly called tomoxetine) setting off mania (Steinberg & Chouinard, Am J Psychiatry. 1985 Dec;142(12):1517-8) That may be the case, but there are only four posts on USENET containing the words "tomoxetine" and "mania"–two are on the manic-depression newsgroup, one is on sci.med.pharmacy, and the fourth is the post to which I am responding. Since ADHD is not manic-depression or "mania" of any form I am a bit puzzled as to why you are bringing this wondrous dose of enlightenment to an ADHD newsgroup instead of one where there might be some significant number of participants for whom this is a serious issue.
John, I can tell you why it’s of interest to me … just as the authors of The Bipolar Child warned about the use of stimulants in the possible presence of undiagnosed bipolar, I saw similar reports after the initial rush to embrace Strattera as the new drug for ADHD. The concern has always been that, in children at least, bipolar can be confused with ADHD and children may be inappropriately medicated with stimulants or antidepressants, with disastrous consequences. http://www.bipolarchild.com/newsletters/9911.html It concerned me that the medication was pushed very aggressively on some websites, that we saw a number of adverse (looking like activation of mania) reactions, and that (I don’t believe ?) it has been tested with bipolar. And yet, parents were rushing to try it, when their children had symptoms suggestive of undiagnosed bipolar rather than ADHD. Because many people still believe (inaccurately) that stimulants can’t be used in the presence of tics, there was a rush to try Strattera by people who had not previously used stimulants when it was marketed as not exacerbating tics. http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com/tics_and_stimulants.htm Also, I found many more posts throughout Usenet … often Strattera is misspelled as Straterra (notice the subject line of this post, for example). — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..snippped….. Note by the way that I am not in any way defending Strattera–I had a _very_ bad experience with it that you can find with google groups. I have heard of relatively few good experiences. My feelers went up a long time ago, because of how many negative reports I read about in the community of TS patients who rushed out to try the new drug which allegedly didn’t exacerbate tics. I think it was a very well marketed drug, and at least in TS circles, a lot of hype was created because it allegedly doesn’t exacerbate tics. I just find it even more interesting that ADHD.com ditched their message boards, where a lot of the adverse reactions were reported. It is reminiscent of what happened with the way Inversine was marketed aggressively via the internet to TS patients a few years back … http://pub23.ezboard.com/ftourettesyndromenowwhatfrm5.showMessage?top… One poster (who turned out to be a drug company rep) was pushing Inversine on the internet (MGH) in spite of no credible evidence (to date) in support of it for tics. One person was also pushing Strattera on TS message boards. It was interesting … — Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com
I wrote about a bad experience with only one 18 unit pill. I didn’t have enough time to see if I’m a closet bipolar, but the stuff caused me to have a nasty problem controlling my temper. Still, if Strattera can help some people who have problems with other meds I’m not going to be opposed to others using it. But, it’s quite clearly not for everyone. Aloha, George
Response:
Also, I found many more posts throughout Usenet … often Strattera is misspelled as Straterra (notice the subject line of this post, for example).
That was too easy…except if you have ADD. However, why did that post happen to be beamed down to ASAD when Strattera was not a general topic of discussion here? Aloha, George
Response:
Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span.
Do you know why it helps with attention Mr. Elvis? FWIW, Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) is an SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). It’s mechinism of action is quite similar to Ednorax (reboxetine), a vastly supiorior prduct which is not available in the US because Eli Lilly sucked off the FDA.
And how does Ednorax work and where is it available? Or because the testing was not conducted to the FDA’s satisfaction. If you believe that the FDA acted improperly then write your Congresscritter or start a class-action suit. This is a fascinating thread for me because I’m a d/x’d bipolar, currently "playing" with meds to find the right combo for me. I went to my pdoc for an ADD assessement. He agrees that I am ADD but insists that we find a comfortable and working med combo for the bipolar first. A treatment plan that I find completely reasonable. John – do you mind if I steal that "Congresscritter"? 
Sorry, congresscritters can only be bought and sold, not stolen. Aloha, George
Response:
If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this.
You are correct about this. Sometimes, people don’t know they have bipolar and think they just have ADHD instead of both together (happened in my case). With mild bipolar it can be hard to tell the signs, in fact, it took me a bit before I finally accepted that I had both. Check out http://bipolar.about.com . This will help you, also, being around someone who’s knowledable about the condition. That helped me even more. Mania is more than just feeling "naturally high" it’s also irritability and being anxious or even more restless than you would normally be as an ADHDer. Talking alot even more than usual (for the hyperactive ADHDer this can be much), it feels like a pressure to talk. In my case the talking happens even when not bored. If I talk alot because of my ADHD I can also listen if the person is interesting to listen to. When manic I feel like I have to talk no matter what. It’s almost impossible to stop myself. Also if you have constantly felt a slave to your moods, it may be a problem. There’s alot more than this, it’s a small sample. Now I’m at the point where I am happy that I am fully diagnosed correctly. MorphGrrl
Response:
Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one.
Not very well apparently–it did not pass clinical trial for that use. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are.
What leads you to believe that the mechanism of action of "all antidepressants" is "unique"? I’ve not heard SSRIs or MAO inhibitors described as having a "unique mechanism" but they most assuredly are antidepressants. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span.
And didn’t help many people’s depression. It should be treated like an anti-depressant, according to my psychiatrist.
Ask him what he meant by that. He may not mean what you think he meant. If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar. Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients.
If you have bipolar then you need to get that under control before looking for ADHD. Has nothing to do with the advisability of using particular meds and everything to do with finding out if the symptoms one is observing are all due to the bipolar or whether there is ADHD in addition to bipolar. It’s incredible how many posts I’ve read of people complaining how they are upset how Straterra affected their mania.
I haven’t seen any in which anybody said anything about Strattera affecting their mania. Perhaps this was in a newsgroup unrelated to ADHD? This is expected– unless you and your doctor are very secure with your bipolar’s stabalization, if not more so than you and your doctor thinks they need to be, there is a very great risk of activating manic cycling in you as a bipolar patient.
Well, that’s fine. Thank you for sharing. If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this.
Are you targetting this at anybody in particular or just posting it for general information? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Bravo John, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is the kind of uneducated armchair diagnoses and recommendation, I was referring to. DjD
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. Not very well apparently–it did not pass clinical trial for that use. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. What leads you to believe that the mechanism of action of "all antidepressants" is "unique"? I’ve not heard SSRIs or MAO inhibitors described as having a "unique mechanism" but they most assuredly are antidepressants. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. And didn’t help many people’s depression. It should be treated like an anti-depressant, according to my psychiatrist. Ask him what he meant by that. He may not mean what you think he meant. If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar. Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients. If you have bipolar then you need to get that under control before looking for ADHD. Has nothing to do with the advisability of using particular meds and everything to do with finding out if the symptoms one is observing are all due to the bipolar or whether there is ADHD in addition to bipolar. It’s incredible how many posts I’ve read of people complaining how they are upset how Straterra affected their mania. I haven’t seen any in which anybody said anything about Strattera affecting their mania. Perhaps this was in a newsgroup unrelated to ADHD? This is expected– unless you and your doctor are very secure with your bipolar’s stabalization, if not more so than you and your doctor thinks they need to be, there is a very great risk of activating manic cycling in you as a bipolar patient. Well, that’s fine. Thank you for sharing. If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this. Are you targetting this at anybody in particular or just posting it for general information? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. It should be treated like an anti-depressant, according to my psychiatrist. If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar. Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients. It’s incredible how many posts I’ve read of people complaining how they are upset how Straterra affected their mania. This is expected– unless you and your doctor are very secure with your bipolar’s stabalization, if not more so than you and your doctor thinks they need to be, there is a very great risk of activating manic cycling in you as a bipolar patient. If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this.
I took strattera with wellbutrin and adderal on day and I had an episode where something that normally just me angry threw me into a rage. It lasted for a few minutes and went away just as abrupty as it came. Is this a sign of un-DX’d mania or was it merely a chemical thing? ? — Sojo SEVEN.2.7.2.reply. ASCII stupid question. Get a stupid ANSI
Response:
I took strattera with wellbutrin and adderal on day and I had an episode where something that normally just me angry threw me into a rage. It lasted for a few minutes and went away just as abrupty as it came. Is this a sign of un-DX’d mania or was it merely a chemical thing? ?
If this is the first time ever it has ever happened, then it’s a chemical thing. I had a chemical reaction to Wellbutrin – it made me have a small seizure. Ever since then I haven’t had them. Un-dx’d mania would have to had happened in some way shape or form before. Three stims (or stim-like) meds sound excessive to me. Talk to your doctor about it. MorphGrrl
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took strattera with wellbutrin and adderal on day and I had an episode where something that normally just me angry threw me into a rage. It lasted for a few minutes and went away just as abrupty as it came. Is this a sign of un-DX’d mania or was it merely a chemical thing? ? If this is the first time ever it has ever happened, then it’s a chemical thing. I had a chemical reaction to Wellbutrin – it made me have a small seizure. Ever since then I haven’t had them. Un-dx’d mania would have to had happened in some way shape or form before. Three stims (or stim-like) meds sound excessive to me. Talk to your doctor about it. MorphGrrl
I did it on my own to try and stop smoking with a few meds i had laying around. The welbutrin and adderal are what I’m on right now. I had the episode when I added strattera — Sojo SEVEN.2.7.2.reply. ASCII stupid question. Get a stupid ANSI
Response:
Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span.
FWIW, Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) is an SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). It’s mechinism of action is quite similar to Ednorax (reboxetine), a vastly supiorior prduct which is not available in the US because Eli Lilly sucked off the FDA. — "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." –Theodore Roosevelt
Response:
Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. FWIW, Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) is an SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). It’s mechinism of action is quite similar to Ednorax (reboxetine), a vastly supiorior prduct which is not available in the US because Eli Lilly sucked off the FDA.
Or because the testing was not conducted to the FDA’s satisfaction. If you believe that the FDA acted improperly then write your Congresscritter or start a class-action suit. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. FWIW, Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) is an SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). It’s mechinism of action is quite similar to Ednorax (reboxetine), a vastly supiorior prduct which is not available in the US because Eli Lilly sucked off the FDA. Or because the testing was not conducted to the FDA’s satisfaction. If you believe that the FDA acted improperly then write your Congresscritter or start a class-action suit.
This is a fascinating thread for me because I’m a d/x’d bipolar, currently "playing" with meds to find the right combo for me. I went to my pdoc for an ADD assessement. He agrees that I am ADD but insists that we find a comfortable and working med combo for the bipolar first. A treatment plan that I find completely reasonable. John – do you mind if I steal that "Congresscritter"?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients.)) DjD: There are 2 categories or types of antidepressants Straterra falls into only 1. I am a bipolar patient, and have no idea how any bipolar can have a minic cycle. a bipolar cycle, yes. ((No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar.)) DjD: Ref:: In general, psychiatrists should be cautious in prescribing antidepressants for patients with bipolar disorder. However, as some bipolar patients continue to develop depression despite optimal use of mood stabilizers, antidepressants are often necessary for acute and/or prophylactic treatment. Patients who require antidepressant treatment should receive the lowest effective dose for the shortest time necessary. REF: The National Mental Health Association, The American Psychiatric Association, and The National Institute of Mental Health, Office of Communications and Public Liaison, in joint effort for, The Presidents Commission On Mental Health, 2003. Bad advise is worst than none at all. DjD
Um, okay, one poster accused me of potentially "targeting" this post to someone on this list. That poster also claimed that no one on this list has complained of Straterra making their mania worse. I suggested reading this list more often, and responding less. Second of all, it’s not bad advise to try to stabalize the bipolar in a patient first. One poster’s response to mine was that his doctor wanted to do this before trying Straterra. And Joseph Biederman, MD, of MGH’s Pediatric Psychopharmacology Department, has said this time and again– that doctors need to be cautious about bipolar patients who present with ADD as a comorbid state (he believes that the two are likely comorbid states, and argues against one poster’s response to my post claiming there are often times where one state mimics the other). Why to be cautious? Because antidepressants, as he said psychiatrists have recently noted over the years, do induce bipolar in many bipolar patients. And yes, Straterra was developed by Lilly as an antidepressant… and yes, every drug is unique. Unique means not the same; different. No one can claim two drugs are the same. Seriously, I am armcharing this post, but so is this pathetic criticism, which carries far less basis than my post ever did. Institutional consensus statements overrule the world’s leader in pediatric psychopharmacology when he discusses recent findings of how antidepressants work in bipolar + ADD kids? I think not, considering these consensus statements are evolving documents that eventually stem from a single researcher’s novel findings at some point in time, and as a result are often outdated. But, yeah, if anyone wants to argue against the notion that your ADD doesn’t make you irritable, post away.
Response:
If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients.
Case report of atomoxetine (formerly called tomoxetine) setting off mania (Steinberg & Chouinard, Am J Psychiatry. 1985 Dec;142(12):1517-8)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. FWIW, Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) is an SNRI (Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). It’s mechinism of action is quite similar to Ednorax (reboxetine), a vastly supiorior prduct which is not available in the US because Eli Lilly sucked off the FDA. Or because the testing was not conducted to the FDA’s satisfaction. If you believe that the FDA acted improperly then write your Congresscritter or start a class-action suit. This is a fascinating thread for me because I’m a d/x’d bipolar, currently "playing" with meds to find the right combo for me. I went to my pdoc for an ADD assessement. He agrees that I am ADD but insists that we find a comfortable and working med combo for the bipolar first. A treatment plan that I find completely reasonable. John – do you mind if I steal that "Congresscritter"?
Since I can’t even remember who I stole it from, sure. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. It should be treated like an anti-depressant, according to my psychiatrist. If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar. Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients. It’s incredible how many posts I’ve read of people complaining how they are upset how Straterra affected their mania. This is expected– unless you and your doctor are very secure with your bipolar’s stabalization, if not more so than you and your doctor thinks they need to be, there is a very great risk of activating manic cycling in you as a bipolar patient. If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this.
Response:
((Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients.)) DjD: There are 2 categories or types of antidepressants Straterra falls into only 1. I am a bipolar patient, and have no idea how any bipolar can have a minic cycle. a bipolar cycle, yes. ((No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar.)) DjD: Ref:: In general, psychiatrists should be cautious in prescribing antidepressants for patients with bipolar disorder. However, as some bipolar patients continue to develop depression despite optimal use of mood stabilizers, antidepressants are often necessary for acute and/or prophylactic treatment. Patients who require antidepressant treatment should receive the lowest effective dose for the shortest time necessary. REF: The National Mental Health Association, The American Psychiatric Association, and The National Institute of Mental Health, Office of Communications and Public Liaison, in joint effort for, The Presidents Commission On Mental Health, 2003. Bad advise is worst than none at all. DjD
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strattera was originally developed as an anti-depressant. It acts as one. It’s mechanism of action is unique, just like all the other anti-depressants are. It happens to be marketed as an ADD med, because it was later found in trials that it helped some people’s attention span. It should be treated like an anti-depressant, according to my psychiatrist. If you have bipolar, YOU NEED TO GET YOUR MANIA UNDER CONTROL FIRST. No psychiatrist who knows what he or she is doing gives an antidepressant to a bipolar patient until the patient is stablized for their bipolar. Like any drug that acts as an antidepressant, Straterra will activate manic cycling in bipolar patients. It’s incredible how many posts I’ve read of people complaining how they are upset how Straterra affected their mania. This is expected– unless you and your doctor are very secure with your bipolar’s stabalization, if not more so than you and your doctor thinks they need to be, there is a very great risk of activating manic cycling in you as a bipolar patient. If you have bipolar, you need to know this. If you doctor didn’t warn you of this or didn’t become very prudent and agressive about first stabalizing your manic episodes before trying Straterra, you need to see a new doc– don’t expect much from him or her in the future, as I’m a 20 yr old English major without bipolar and even I know this.
Response:
Nancy Unique, like everyone else 