Request for stat, if anyone knows it;
Question:
"TSNW" <tsnwREMOVEC…@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3D3BD09F.58E0F769@optonline.net… > Because TS is seen more frequently in boys than girls,
Not trying to start a gender debate here, but it is a known fact that the manifestations of TS described in most litterature (TSNW know far more about the actual books than me) are based on obeservations of males, and that there are still uncertainties regarding females. This adds an uncertainty to the distribution of diagnosed TS cases between men and women. John Morten
Response:
Maryann wrote: > > And, > > Information about the natural time course of the severity of TS, > > including typical ages of onset, etc. > > http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum99/HTML/000947.html > This Yale birth-age cohort study points out the gender inbalance: the > participants were 32 males, 4 females. That’s 8:1.
I agree … I don’t believe the data can be reliably extended to girls … and I always forget to add that disclaimer 
— Misleading info about TS published by Jankovic in NEJM http://tourettenowwhat.tripod.com/JankovicNEJM.htm
Response:
in article 3D3C12E2.40…@rcn.com, Maryann at sableme…@rcn.com wrote on 7/22/02 9:12 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paula wrote: >> in article 20020721194051.22576.00000…@mb-fg.aol.com, SirVLCIV at >> vgodaw…@aol.comdelete wrote on 7/21/02 6:40 PM: >>> Does anyone know what age TS most often is first seen? A friend introduced >>> an >>> interesting idea of the cause of the trigger of onset; males are affected >>> 3-4 >>> times more than females, and it always occurs first before 18; could a surge >>> of >>> hormones (testosterone?) be the cause? >>> This is merely speculation, btw. >> From what I know: >> Age of onset 8 to 18. I have read that there is a move to make the age of >> onset younger and to make it older. > Age of onset is currently before 18 (there is talk of increasing it to > 21). I wasn’t aware that there was a "floor" on age of onset…8 > probably refers to the average age of *diagnosis*. My daughter had > observable tics as a toddler (though it took quite some time for me to > convince the pedi that they were, in fact, tics). Most people I’ve > known, looking back with informed hindsight, recall tics that were > present years before diagnosis.
There are several other ‘tic’ syndromes that are not TS, and those usually resolve by age 8ish. So.. a tic diagnosis before age 8 is currently not considered ‘TS’ but one of the ‘other ones’ until, well.. you get the drift. Yes, hindsight being 20/20, perhaps there were ‘tics’, but, son was not aware of the ‘involuntarishness’ until age 9. And, I’ve seen children with tics that clear up… so… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Yes, TS affects males more than females.. however, I can’t remember the >> ratio. > The figure I’ve heard is 4:1; I’m wondering whether there is the same > level of gender disparity in milder, undiagnosed TS…I suspect not… >> How do hormones relate? I am unsure, but since hormones affect us in other >> ways, it is reasonable to believe that hormones affect TS. Cause it? no. >> Make one more suseptible? no. > Another area were there is far too little research. One of the problems > with the studies is that they are darn near exclusively male (nowhere > near a 4:1 ratio in study participants). For what it’s worth, what > limited studies have been done suggest that tics do not exacerbate with > the onset of puberty…I have serious questions as to whether this info > holds true for girls (and at least one, albeit limited, study, which > suggests it does not).
The latest I was told was that puberty can, but not necessarily will, alter TS symptoms. Better, worse, who knows.. that is not ‘certain’. It can go either way. Gut instinct as a mommy? The self conciousness of the teen years is more than likely responsible for any ‘increase’ in ticcines and the gaining of self confidence responsible for the ‘decrease’. For what that’s worth. ;-) Paula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Genetics..another issue. >> Paula >>> __________________ >>> "Zoe nou sos agapo." – Lord Byron >>> "Est Sularus Oth Mithas." – Solamnic Knights >>> "She walks in beauty, like the night" – Lord Byron >>> "all which isn’t singing is mere talking and all talking’s talking to >>> oneself" >>> – e e cummings > A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as > his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage. > "The Emperor is naked," he said. > –Hans Christian Anderson "The Emperor’s New Clothes"
–
Response:
in article ZZW_8.440$HY3.74…@newsc.telia.net, John Morten Malerbakken at John.Mor…@malerbakken.com wrote on 7/22/02 12:08 PM: > "TSNW" <tsnwREMOVEC…@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:3D3BD09F.58E0F769@optonline.net… >> Because TS is seen more frequently in boys than girls, > Not trying to start a gender debate here, but it is a known fact that the > manifestations of TS described in most litterature (TSNW know far more about > the actual books than me) are based on obeservations of males, and that > there are still uncertainties regarding females. This adds an uncertainty to > the distribution of diagnosed TS cases between men and women. > John Morten
well, since this family is 50% female and 50% male… 1 out of 6 has TS.. and that one is male. hehehe Paula —
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paula wrote: > in article 3D3C12E2.40…@rcn.com, Maryann at sableme…@rcn.com wrote on > 7/22/02 9:12 AM: >>Paula wrote: >>>in article 20020721194051.22576.00000…@mb-fg.aol.com, SirVLCIV at >>>vgodaw…@aol.comdelete wrote on 7/21/02 6:40 PM: >>>>Does anyone know what age TS most often is first seen? A friend introduced >>>>an >>>>interesting idea of the cause of the trigger of onset; males are affected >>>>3-4 >>>>times more than females, and it always occurs first before 18; could a surge >>>>of >>>>hormones (testosterone?) be the cause? >>>>This is merely speculation, btw. >>>From what I know: >>>Age of onset 8 to 18. I have read that there is a move to make the age of >>>onset younger and to make it older. >>Age of onset is currently before 18 (there is talk of increasing it to >>21). I wasn’t aware that there was a "floor" on age of onset…8 >>probably refers to the average age of *diagnosis*. My daughter had >>observable tics as a toddler (though it took quite some time for me to >>convince the pedi that they were, in fact, tics). Most people I’ve >>known, looking back with informed hindsight, recall tics that were >>present years before diagnosis. > There are several other ‘tic’ syndromes that are not TS, and those usually > resolve by age 8ish. So.. a tic diagnosis before age 8 is currently not > considered ‘TS’ but one of the ‘other ones’ until, well.. you get the drift. > Yes, hindsight being 20/20, perhaps there were ‘tics’, but, son was not > aware of the ‘involuntarishness’ until age 9. And, I’ve seen children with > tics that clear up… so…
The diagnostic criteria do require that other causes (including transient tics of childhood) be ruled out before a dx of TS is made. There is no minimum age in the current diagnostic criteria. >>A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as >>his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage. >>"The Emperor is naked," he said. >>–Hans Christian Anderson "The Emperor’s New Clothes"
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Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paula wrote: > in article 20020721194051.22576.00000…@mb-fg.aol.com, SirVLCIV at > vgodaw…@aol.comdelete wrote on 7/21/02 6:40 PM: >>Does anyone know what age TS most often is first seen? A friend introduced an >>interesting idea of the cause of the trigger of onset; males are affected 3-4 >>times more than females, and it always occurs first before 18; could a surge >>of >>hormones (testosterone?) be the cause? >>This is merely speculation, btw. > From what I know: > Age of onset 8 to 18. I have read that there is a move to make the age of > onset younger and to make it older.
Age of onset is currently before 18 (there is talk of increasing it to 21). I wasn’t aware that there was a "floor" on age of onset…8 probably refers to the average age of *diagnosis*. My daughter had observable tics as a toddler (though it took quite some time for me to convince the pedi that they were, in fact, tics). Most people I’ve known, looking back with informed hindsight, recall tics that were present years before diagnosis. > Yes, TS affects males more than females.. however, I can’t remember the > ratio.
The figure I’ve heard is 4:1; I’m wondering whether there is the same level of gender disparity in milder, undiagnosed TS…I suspect not… > How do hormones relate? I am unsure, but since hormones affect us in other > ways, it is reasonable to believe that hormones affect TS. Cause it? no. > Make one more suseptible? no.
Another area were there is far too little research. One of the problems with the studies is that they are darn near exclusively male (nowhere near a 4:1 ratio in study participants). For what it’s worth, what limited studies have been done suggest that tics do not exacerbate with the onset of puberty…I have serious questions as to whether this info holds true for girls (and at least one, albeit limited, study, which suggests it does not). > Genetics..another issue. > Paula >>__________________ >>"Zoe nou sos agapo." – Lord Byron >>"Est Sularus Oth Mithas." – Solamnic Knights >>"She walks in beauty, like the night" – Lord Byron >>"all which isn’t singing is mere talking and all talking’s talking to oneself" >>- e e cummings
A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage. "The Emperor is naked," he said. –Hans Christian Anderson "The Emperor’s New Clothes"
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -TSNW wrote: > Because TS is seen more frequently in boys than girls, and because the > natural time course of the condition seems to follow normal, underlying > neurobiological processes, it is hypothesized to possibly be related to > hormonal issues, possibly in utero. Steroids during critical periods > in fetal development may play a role. > Environmental influences are also thought to affect the severity of the > expression of the TS gene(s). > Psychoneuroendocrinology 1992 Nov;17(6):553-63 > Steroid hormones and CNS sexual dimorphisms modulate symptom expression > in Tourette’s syndrome. > Peterson BS, Leckman JF, Scahill L, Naftolin F, Keefe D, Charest NJ, > Cohen DJ. > Clinical Research Center, Yale University School of Medicine, New > Haven, Connecticut. > We present our hypothesis that various steroid hormones play an > important role in the symptom expression of Gilles de la Tourette’s > syndrome (TS) and that androgenic hormones, in particular, are likely > to exacerbate symptoms of the disorder. We review the clinical evidence > supporting our hypothesis. Sex steroids establish brain sexual > dimorphisms early in CNS development, and we suggest mechanisms whereby > androgenic and other hormonal changes later in human development might > act at dimorphic brain regions to influence the natural history of TS. > Finally, we discuss the various ways in which neuroendocrine studies > might assist in genetic and neurobiologic research programs in TS. > And, > Information about the natural time course of the severity of TS, > including typical ages of onset, etc. > http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum99/HTML/000947.html
This Yale birth-age cohort study points out the gender inbalance: the participants were 32 males, 4 females. That’s 8:1. Maryann A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage. "The Emperor is naked," he said. –Hans Christian Anderson "The Emperor’s New Clothes"
Response:
Because TS is seen more frequently in boys than girls, and because the natural time course of the condition seems to follow normal, underlying neurobiological processes, it is hypothesized to possibly be related to hormonal issues, possibly in utero. Steroids during critical periods in fetal development may play a role. Environmental influences are also thought to affect the severity of the expression of the TS gene(s). Psychoneuroendocrinology 1992 Nov;17(6):553-63 Steroid hormones and CNS sexual dimorphisms modulate symptom expression in Tourette’s syndrome. Peterson BS, Leckman JF, Scahill L, Naftolin F, Keefe D, Charest NJ, Cohen DJ. Clinical Research Center, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut. We present our hypothesis that various steroid hormones play an important role in the symptom expression of Gilles de la Tourette’s syndrome (TS) and that androgenic hormones, in particular, are likely to exacerbate symptoms of the disorder. We review the clinical evidence supporting our hypothesis. Sex steroids establish brain sexual dimorphisms early in CNS development, and we suggest mechanisms whereby androgenic and other hormonal changes later in human development might act at dimorphic brain regions to influence the natural history of TS. Finally, we discuss the various ways in which neuroendocrine studies might assist in genetic and neurobiologic research programs in TS. And, Information about the natural time course of the severity of TS, including typical ages of onset, etc. http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum99/HTML/000947.html
Response:
in article 20020721194051.22576.00000…@mb-fg.aol.com, SirVLCIV at vgodaw…@aol.comdelete wrote on 7/21/02 6:40 PM: > Does anyone know what age TS most often is first seen? A friend introduced an > interesting idea of the cause of the trigger of onset; males are affected 3-4 > times more than females, and it always occurs first before 18; could a surge > of > hormones (testosterone?) be the cause? > This is merely speculation, btw.
From what I know: Age of onset 8 to 18. I have read that there is a move to make the age of onset younger and to make it older. Yes, TS affects males more than females.. however, I can’t remember the ratio. How do hormones relate? I am unsure, but since hormones affect us in other ways, it is reasonable to believe that hormones affect TS. Cause it? no. Make one more suseptible? no. Genetics..another issue. Paula > __________________ > "Zoe nou sos agapo." – Lord Byron > "Est Sularus Oth Mithas." – Solamnic Knights > "She walks in beauty, like the night" – Lord Byron > "all which isn’t singing is mere talking and all talking’s talking to oneself" > – e e cummings
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Response:
Does anyone know what age TS most often is first seen? A friend introduced an interesting idea of the cause of the trigger of onset; males are affected 3-4 times more than females, and it always occurs first before 18; could a surge of hormones (testosterone?) be the cause? This is merely speculation, btw. __________________ "Zoe nou sos agapo." – Lord Byron "Est Sularus Oth Mithas." – Solamnic Knights "She walks in beauty, like the night" – Lord Byron "all which isn’t singing is mere talking and all talking’s talking to oneself" – e e cummings
