Corprolalia (sp?) vs potty mouth?
Question:
OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if it’s tic … what do we do? Peggikaye
Response:
Mom2tazbug wrote: > OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > it’s tic … what do we do? > Peggikaye
From your description, it does not sound like a tic to me. Does it seem to bother him when he says these words? Raymond has not had verbal coprolalia, but did have *mental* coprolalia, where the words became stuck in his mind. The words bothered him, they were not fun for him or did not provide any kind of "relief" to think. He also has spitting tics which come and go, which are also "socially unacceptable". They bother him somewhat in school or similar social situations. I didn’t know this was a tic (or maybe I should say compulsion, who knows?) when it first started, but after watching it for a bit and talking with him about it I found it to be a tic. He does pretty well at suppressing it in school and other public places. I just let him spit his little heart out at home or in our yard or even around neighbor kids (if there were no adults around)<g> as long as he doesn’t spit at anybody. He is still not ready to tell everybody that he has TS, so things like this can be a little difficult. So,I just told him to try not to do it where it could cause him trouble. When he really has do it in school etc., I told him to excuse himself and go somewhere private to do it. So far this has worked out for us so far. If in Benjamin’s case it is not a tic, he does need a talking to. I think the hard part is having to be careful not to blame everything on TS. That can give a kid a built in excuse for bad behavior, and make him more miserable than ever in the long run. It is sometimes hard to tell, but the longer you see your child’s TS symptoms, the easier it becomes to tell the difference. It took me a lot longer to catch onto the "burping" as a tic than it did the spitting. Part of the problem is that these are kind of "boy" things and I think he sees them in other kids, does them because of that, and then they kind of get a hold on him. When they become tics, they seem to have different quality to them that I am learning to spot. Either way, I don’t get really excited over things like this. I don’t allow them either. (assuming it is not a tic. If it is we try to accommodate it as best we can.) But I don’t jump down his throat about it when he does things that are not acceptable. I think because of this, he is not afraid to tell me if a "behavior" is a tic thing or just a kid testing his limits thing. Jai — In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. MLKjr
Response:
Jenny, my student had a "spitting tic". The school nurse absolutely insisted that he use a tissue to spit in or remain at home (private school). He did use a tissue from that time on whenever the tic occurred, which was not often. Just a suggestion, it might ease the frustration of the social embarrassment somewhat. I know this is a biggie issue with some people. Niki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jennybravo wrote: > Mom2tazbug wrote: > > OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > > it’s tic … what do we do? > > Peggikaye > From your description, it does not sound like a tic to me. Does it seem > to bother him when he says these words? Raymond has not had verbal > coprolalia, but did have *mental* coprolalia, where the words became > stuck in his mind. The words bothered him, they were not fun for him or > did not provide any kind of "relief" to think. He also has spitting tics > which come and go, which are also "socially unacceptable". They bother > him somewhat in school or similar social situations. I didn’t know this > was a tic (or maybe I should say compulsion, who knows?) when it first > started, but after watching it for a bit and talking with him about it I > found it to be a tic. He does pretty well at suppressing it in school > and other public places. I just let him spit his little heart out at > home or in our yard or even around neighbor kids (if there were no > adults around)<g> as long as he doesn’t spit at anybody. He is still not > ready to tell everybody that he has TS, so things like this can be a > little difficult. So,I just told him to try not to do it where it could > cause him trouble. When he really has do it in school etc., I told him > to excuse himself and go somewhere private to do it. So far this has > worked out for us so far. If in Benjamin’s case it is not a tic, he does > need a talking to. I think the hard part is having to be careful not to > blame everything on TS. That can give a kid a built in excuse for bad > behavior, and make him more miserable than ever in the long run. It is > sometimes hard to tell, but the longer you see your child’s TS symptoms, > the easier it becomes to tell the difference. It took me a lot longer to > catch onto the "burping" as a tic than it did the spitting. Part of the > problem is that these are kind of "boy" things and I think he sees them > in other kids, does them because of that, and then they kind of get a > hold on him. When they become tics, they seem to have different quality > to them that I am learning to spot. Either way, I don’t get really > excited over things like this. I don’t allow them either. (assuming it > is not a tic. If it is we try to accommodate it as best we can.) But I > don’t jump down his throat about it when he does things that are not > acceptable. I think because of this, he is not afraid to tell me if a > "behavior" is a tic thing or just a kid testing his limits thing. > Jai > — > In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the > silence of our friends. > MLKjr
Response:
Peggikaye, if the cussing is very intentional, how can that be a tic? Is it possible that Benjamin is just "testing the waters" as a part of his own growth experience? I am here to learn and I am interested in hearing from others their opinions on your post. I remember well the first time I heard my youngest son use a cuss word…he does not have TS, but my reaction, as a mother, was mild surprise…like I did not realize that he was "there" already. Thanks for sharing. Niki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mom2tazbug wrote: > OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > it’s tic … what do we do? > Peggikaye
Response:
Niki, one thing that can make it hard to sort it out when it may "look" intentional is the factor of compulsive behavior versus tics. I’ve never lived this experience, so I also look forward to hearing others opinions whenever this subject comes up. I used to think that anytime it looked intentional, it wasn’t TS related, but I’m not so clear about compulsions. Perhaps it’s better to focus on how to parent through this in such a way that – even if it is NOT a tic – it doesn’t become "seated" as a tic or compulsion? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -niki wrote: > Peggikaye, if the cussing is very intentional, how can that be a tic? Is it > possible that > Benjamin is just "testing the waters" as a part of his own growth experience? I am > here to learn and I am interested in hearing from others their opinions on your > post. > I remember well the first time I heard my youngest son use a cuss word…he does > not have TS, but my reaction, as a mother, was mild surprise…like I did not > realize > that he was "there" already. Thanks for sharing. > Niki > Mom2tazbug wrote: > > OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > > it’s tic … what do we do? > > Peggikaye
– Tourette Syndrome – Now What? http://members.home.net/tourettenowwhat "The autumn always gets me badly, as it breaks into colours. I want to go south, where there is no autumn, where the cold doesn’t crouch over one like a snow-leopard waiting to pounce." D.H. Lawrence, English author (1885-1930).
Response:
In article <20001016214426.25200.00000…@ng-cn1.aol.com>, mom2taz…@aol.com (Mom2tazbug) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > it’s tic … what do we do? > Peggikaye
Hi Peggikaye, I have 3 young children, ages 9, 7 and 6 (all diagnosed with TS). Appropriate language comes up around here a lot!! I have sort of evolved into my position on cussing. While not freaking out on cussing, I always tell them it’s not acceptable. I have had many discussions with my children on the fact that some people will pass judgment on them based on the language they use. So even if I don’t fall over in shock and horror if one of my kids cusses (because I just don’t), someone else could think significantly less of them for it. This is working for us. My children are actually very well mannered. Certainly much more well-mannered than lots of the children I observe at school. However, I think my 7yo son did have a sort of coprolalia-type issue. He would blurt out "Poopy diaper" – completely out of the blue, not relative to anything. After a couple of days of saying stuff to him like "STOP IT!!!" and after I discussed it with friends, the lightbulb finally went on for me that this was a tic/compulsion type of blurting. Almost as soon as I lightened up, the blurting became "diaper person", so apparently he sort of self-corrected this (tic??) into something more appropriate. This was distinctly different than some of the other sort of language experimentation all 3 of my kids are capable of. Hope this helps some. Always, TreadinWater Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Hi Peggikaye Boy, was this a hard one for us. When my son was first dx with TS+, I did nothing but question myself. Is that a tic or is that misbehavior. So I let things slide. But then I caught on. When my son started to cuss, at first I was thinking… don’t say anything, the poor thing has TS. This went on for a bit, then I decided enough is enough, my oldest son was taking a verbal beating. I told my son this was unacceptable and there will be consequences. He told me: "it’s not my fault, it’s the TS". I told him he cannot use the TS as an excuse for everything. Especially when he cusses only when things are not going his way or towards his brother… he would never do it in front of me, except once or twice when he was really, really angry. I started to take away privilages and told him he could no longer play with his older brother if he would not treat him with respect. Well guess what? His cussing stopped. Oh, he still does it outside when he’s with a group of other cussing kids… but this, I know will fade as it did when I was his age. It seems fun and cool at first but then you grow out of it. I did. I am still on the look out for corprolalia, but like my son’s psych. told me, if it’s done when angry, it’s not a tic. For me, I can read my son like a book… we are very close and I am amazed at how well I can detect new tics or misbehavior. And with his rage attacks, I need to set rules and limits or else this can get out of hand. Parenting him is the hardest challenge that I have ever been faced with. Let’s just say, it’s not quiet at my place. In fact, it’s always an adventure. Good luck to you! Joanne in Canada… "Mom2tazbug" <mom2taz…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001016214426.25200.00000784@ng-cn1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK … here’s a question … it’s about cussing … Benjamin when he gets mad > … only at his brother has been saying "f*** you" (thank you public school > system … he’s NEVER heard that word in this house) and tonight he came up the > stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not appropriate > … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and the > F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel says it > … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … is it > potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if > it’s tic … what do we do? > Peggikaye
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> and tonight he came up the >> stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. >> (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not >appropriate >> … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and >the >> F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel >says it >> … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … >is it >> potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, >if >> it’s tic … what do we do? >> Peggikaye >From your description, it does not sound like a tic to me. Does it seem >to bother him when he says these words? Raymond has not had verbal >coprolalia, but did have *mental* coprolalia, where the words became >stuck in his mind. The words bothered him, they were not fun for him or >did not provide any kind of "relief" to think. He also has spitting tics >which come and go, which are also "socially unacceptable". They bother >him somewhat in school or similar social situations. I didn’t know this >was a tic (or maybe I should say compulsion, who knows?) when it first >started, but after watching it for a bit and talking with him about it I >found it to be a tic. He does pretty well at suppressing it in school >and other public places. I just let him spit his little heart out at >home or in our yard or even around neighbor kids (if there were no >adults around)<g> as long as he doesn’t spit at anybody. He is still not >ready to tell everybody that he has TS, so things like this can be a >little difficult. So,I just told him to try not to do it where it could >cause him trouble. When he really has do it in school etc., I told him >to excuse himself and go somewhere private to do it. So far this has >worked out for us so far. If in Benjamin’s case it is not a tic, he does >need a talking to. I think the hard part is having to be careful not to >blame everything on TS. That can give a kid a built in excuse for bad >behavior, and make him more miserable than ever in the long run. It is >sometimes hard to tell, but the longer you see your child’s TS symptoms, >the easier it becomes to tell the difference. It took me a lot longer to >catch onto the "burping" as a tic than it did the spitting. Part of the >problem is that these are kind of "boy" things and I think he sees them >in other kids, does them because of that, and then they kind of get a >hold on him. When they become tics, they seem to have different quality >to them that I am learning to spot. Either way, I don’t get really >excited over things like this. I don’t allow them either. (assuming it >is not a tic. If it is we try to accommodate it as best we can.)
OK … hubby left off an important detail of the S*** issue last night, he told me this morning after the boys went to school. As Benjamin was repeatidly swearing his eyes kept getting bigger and bigger in surprise. Then he looked panicked. As soon as he’d said it about 10 times he started to get upset and said he was sorry. Dad said he didn’t think that was important … that because he didn’t scold Benjamin I should have understood that he thought it was a tic. ARGH! And he wonders why I won’t let him take the kids to the doctor! He swears he won’t leave out important details … he’ll tell me what he needs to … uh huh? like last night? Peggikaye
Response:
>one thing that can make it hard to sort it out when it may "look" >intentional is the factor of compulsive behavior versus tics.
I posted in answer to Jai’s about the s*** incident … But the F*** you … I think … not sure but could this be an Impulse control problem. He’s been dx’d with Severe Impulse Control Disorder so???? (He is missing a portion of the frontal lobe of his brain and frontal lobes are where we control impulses.) So …. anger management?Would that be the way? We meet with the neuro in a couple of weeks so I’ll talk to him about it then. Peggikaye
Response:
Oh, that was an important detail… Funny how hubbies do that sometimes… mine does that all the time… Joanne in Canada "Mom2tazbug" <mom2taz…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001017132911.06240.00000049@ng-bg1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > and tonight he came up the > >> stairs saying Sh** repeatidly, now that was egged on by Samuel laughing. > >> (Samuel got into trouble … Benjamin got told that language is not > >appropriate > >> … I think Dad may be catching on!). This cussing is VERY intentional and > >the > >> F word is only used when he is very angry. He will also say that Samuel > >says it > >> … which he doesn’t, it’s an excuse to use the word. So … everyone … > >is it > >> potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, > >if > >> it’s tic … what do we do? > >> Peggikaye > >From your description, it does not sound like a tic to me. Does it seem > >to bother him when he says these words? Raymond has not had verbal > >coprolalia, but did have *mental* coprolalia, where the words became > >stuck in his mind. The words bothered him, they were not fun for him or > >did not provide any kind of "relief" to think. He also has spitting tics > >which come and go, which are also "socially unacceptable". They bother > >him somewhat in school or similar social situations. I didn’t know this > >was a tic (or maybe I should say compulsion, who knows?) when it first > >started, but after watching it for a bit and talking with him about it I > >found it to be a tic. He does pretty well at suppressing it in school > >and other public places. I just let him spit his little heart out at > >home or in our yard or even around neighbor kids (if there were no > >adults around)<g> as long as he doesn’t spit at anybody. He is still not > >ready to tell everybody that he has TS, so things like this can be a > >little difficult. So,I just told him to try not to do it where it could > >cause him trouble. When he really has do it in school etc., I told him > >to excuse himself and go somewhere private to do it. So far this has > >worked out for us so far. If in Benjamin’s case it is not a tic, he does > >need a talking to. I think the hard part is having to be careful not to > >blame everything on TS. That can give a kid a built in excuse for bad > >behavior, and make him more miserable than ever in the long run. It is > >sometimes hard to tell, but the longer you see your child’s TS symptoms, > >the easier it becomes to tell the difference. It took me a lot longer to > >catch onto the "burping" as a tic than it did the spitting. Part of the > >problem is that these are kind of "boy" things and I think he sees them > >in other kids, does them because of that, and then they kind of get a > >hold on him. When they become tics, they seem to have different quality > >to them that I am learning to spot. Either way, I don’t get really > >excited over things like this. I don’t allow them either. (assuming it > >is not a tic. If it is we try to accommodate it as best we can.) > OK … hubby left off an important detail of the S*** issue last night, he told > me this morning after the boys went to school. As Benjamin was repeatidly > swearing his eyes kept getting bigger and bigger in surprise. Then he looked > panicked. As soon as he’d said it about 10 times he started to get upset and > said he was sorry. Dad said he didn’t think that was important … that because > he didn’t scold Benjamin I should have understood that he thought it was a tic. > ARGH! And he wonders why I won’t let him take the kids to the doctor! He swears > he won’t leave out important details … he’ll tell me what he needs to … uh > huh? like last night? > Peggikaye
Response:
‘Twas 17 Oct 2000 01:44:26 GMT when the wise and venerated mom2taz…@aol.com (Mom2tazbug) enlightened alt.support.tourette with these thought provoking words: >So … everyone … is it >potty mouth or tic? If it’s potty mouth we need to discipline him for it, if >it’s tic … what do we do?
Unfortunately, you may never know. Just tell him that even if these tics coprolalia, it’s still his job to control them as well as he can. He has _some_ ability to suppress and redirect tics (though it may not be a lot), and his life will be easier the more he develops this ability. And there’s no "r" before the "p" in "coprolalia". — RB |
