Inner workings of a TS mind
Question:
That was me that said the kids had photographic auditory memories. I still believe it. My daughter is in fifth grade and doesn’t seem to need to study much (except math) because she remembers everything from class. My husband also took very few notes in college and managed to be on dean’s list for four years and just listened in class and read the book. Kevin asked me the other day if I think with pictures in my head when remembering things. I said sometimes. He said he always has pictures in his heads of things as he is figuring them out. Sometimes I feel like I live in the twighlight zone.
Response:
In article <4o288a$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, fangbas…@aol.com (FANGBASHER) writes: >A few months back someone posted that >their child seemed to have what they called a "partial photographic >auditory memory." That seemed to fit with my daughter’s verbal patterns. >At the age of 2.5 years I heard her carry on a monologue in her car seat. >She was repeating back about 15 minutes of the movie, "Heidi’s Song," >verbatim–with appropriate inflection.
Same here with Jason. We frequently joke about "turning the tape off" when he begins his play backs of comedy tapes. He doesn’t miss a beat and is funny the first few times he does this. He most recently heard an Adam Sandler tape at his friends house and thank goodness he chose the more tasteful lines 
. It was a little embarrassing when he did the "Lunch Lady" repertoire with my friend who is a real lunch lady at school 
. His form of tics/OCD take the form of echolalia, which are replays of video games mainly, so it makes sense that his brain is like a tape recorder – he never forgets anything he has heard (whether or not you think he is listening). He actually replays these scenes as a defense to a disgusting mental image. This echolalia/OCD is not the same as his tape recorder jokes, although they may be impulsions. Bonnie Grimaldi
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Nanci wrote: > That was me that said the kids had photographic auditory memories. I > still believe it. My daughter is in fifth grade and doesn’t seem to > need to study much (except math) because she remembers everything from > class. My husband also took very few notes in college and managed to > be on dean’s list for four years and just listened in class and read > the book.
I’m a bit like this… Even in high school, I just make sure I understand the concepts we’re learning by the teacher’s lectures and never bother to take notes, or even read the material a first time, for that matter. Dunno if that will hold up for college or not. –Jared in WA
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In article <31A4FB3E.6AB03…@cyberspace.com>, Jared Roberts <Ja…@cyberspace.com> wrote: [Nanci wrote:
[> [> That was me that said the kids had photographic auditory memories. I [> still believe it. My daughter is in fifth grade and doesn’t seem to [> need to study much (except math) because she remembers everything from [> class. My husband also took very few notes in college and managed to [> be on dean’s list for four years and just listened in class and read [> the book. [ [ I’m a bit like this… Even in high school, I just make sure I [understand the concepts we’re learning by the teacher’s lectures and [never bother to take notes, or even read the material a first time, for [that matter. Dunno if that will hold up for college or not. [ [–Jared in WA It can be a hindrance in college. Professors often do not lecture on what they test you on. Some expect you to do your own reading, then apply their "spin" to what you read and derive your own conclusions. Or, in the sciences, they sometimes communicate very poorly, and you really have to learn things on your own. The books are often of no help, either, and you have to go elsewhere for information. In other words, you have to be more agressive in college. If you aren’t aware of what’s at work here, your former habits will suddenly make you feel like the dunce. I suggest study groups in college, where other people’s work habits combine with your intuition, memory, and cognitive powers in a symbiotic way. I was always welcome in study groups, because I was the one who put everything together. But I was really poor at going out and raking up the info. I got better as time went on, and by grad school, I was always teacher’s pet. Shooshie
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In article <4o2beu$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bonni…@aol.com (BonnieGr) writes: >His form of tics/OCD take the form of echolalia, which are replays of >video games mainly, so it makes sense that his brain is like a tape >recorder – he never forgets anything he has heard (whether or not you >think he is listening). He actually replays these scenes as a defense >to a disgusting mental image. This echolalia/OCD is not the same as his >tape recorder jokes, although they may be impulsions.
My son is the same way. He can remember and quote probably half of the movie Forest Gump. He is very good at impersonations too. It has always amazed me that he can do that but he can’t remember what happens during his day. This is an ongoing thing, not just that he doesn’t want to tell me. I have wondered if the cognitive effects of the clonidine could have something to do with this. Another example is that he reads 3-4 yrs above grade level and can say ANY word he sees but he barely has his own grades’ comprehension level. (2nd grade) Pam Spokane
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Shooshie wrote: > It can be a hindrance in college. Professors often do not lecture on what > they test you on. Some expect you to do your own reading, then apply their > "spin" to what you read and derive your own conclusions. Or, in the > sciences, they sometimes communicate very poorly, and you really have to > learn things on your own. The books are often of no help, either, and you > have to go elsewhere for information. In other words, you have to be more > agressive in college.
I’m not afraid to go seek out knowledge in the deep dark corners of the library. :^) Really the only reason I’m even here was because I spent hours trying to figure out what was wrong with me… –Jared in WA
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PRM37 wrote: > My son is the same way. He can remember and quote probably half of the > movie Forest Gump. He is very good at impersonations too. It has always > amazed me that he can do that but he can’t remember what happens during > his day. This is an ongoing thing, not just that he doesn’t want to tell > me. > I have wondered if the cognitive effects of the clonidine could have > something > to do with this. Another example is that he reads 3-4 yrs above grade > level and > can say ANY word he sees but he barely has his own grades’ comprehension > level. (2nd grade)
To anybody who knows: does this sound like Hyperlexia? –Jared in WA
Response:
You’re talking about that whipsaw-fast free-associativeness >some of us seem plagued with. I makes no sense, and even you >yourself have problems following the logic of what’s being >said.
There was a Norwegian (I think!) researcher whose name I’ve forgotten and couldn’t pronounce anyway who wrote about the concept of "flow." (Leslie, do you remember who this guy is?). Basically, it was the concept of leaping, free association that resulted in a wonderfully, productive frame of mind that produced "satisfying" feelings to the individual thusly engaged. I never knew about this "concept" until I was discussing my perceived ability to "do this." A research psychiatrist mentioned this concept of "flow" (he didn’t remember the guys name either), and said how much it sounded like that. It’s something you have to train >yourself in. If you want to communicate well, you gotta >develop some checks. ….
When I was a prof. animal trainer, we called this "shaping". Sea lions and dolphins already know how to jump out of the water, clear obstacles, wave their flippers, "talk," "tail-walk" (dolphins) backwards in the water, etc etc. All the trainer does is "shape" that natural behavior to be performed on command, or in conjunction with other behaviors. I "taught" a sea lion how to shake his head and "say NO" when I "told" him to jump in the water. Another "learned" how to jump hurdles and through hoops, retrieve rings on her nose with her eyes covered with suction cups, "play" basketball (dunk a small ball into a net/hoop about 2 feet over the surface of the water). Dolphins to "tail-walk." Leap 15 feet in the air and retrieve a Pacific Blue Runner (fish) out of my hand as I leaned out over the water on a gantry). And us trainers got all the credit. Yeah, RIGHT. There was NOTHING there that these wonderful creatures didn’t already DO. We just got ‘em to do it when we wanted them too. And some of us still speculate about who was training WHOM. Anyway, behavior "shaping" is possible with virtually all "higher animals. " Including Homo sapiens. We sometimes call it Behavior Modification. With TS and other behaviors, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I "shape" my tics into "normal" movements. I also believe that I MAY have shaped my inclination toward "flow" to produce some rather satisying results in my professional career. The work I did often called for the ability to do this sort of thing. The more I did it, the better I got at it. Ingesting vast amounts of data and "seeing" the problems and potential solutions was very easy for me. I could never understand why it wasn’t that easy for others. At least, at that time, I couldn’t understand it. Now I have a clue. KAT in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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ucsha…@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chaim Shapiro) wrote: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, >having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class >with irrelevant off the subject remarks…here’s an example….He’d >mention a king of Israel… my ts mind would start whirling… lets see >who still has a monarch…England… what did England do? Colonize >America…N.Y. was one of the first colonies… Cars are stolen a lot in >NY. My teacher used to live in NY…was his car ever stolen….. >Now all this occured within a second or two…my hand would fly up andl >much to my teachers bewilderment, I’d ask about his cars being stolen in >NY. Years later, I was able to divert this brain power into comedy, >allowing me to consider tens of possible one liners all within a nano >second… >Anyone else ever do anything similar? >Chaim Shapiro
Dear Chaim, Seems to me I used to have a similar faster-than-light free assocation train that I thought was pretty funny, but most kids in class couldn’t understand. Later, like you, I used it for comedy, but tried not to base the jokes on the 5 leaps of logic my mind had made beyond the subject at hand. People who were quick enough to follow my thinkikng could find me hilarious, but most just didn’t get it. More than anything, I’ve learned to be careful, that many people’s mionds jsut don’t work quickly enough to follow mine. My first job after college, I had problmes in that area & learned to "dumb down" my humor in the workplace. Venon Frazer
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> There was a Norwegian (I think!) researcher whose name I’ve forgotten and > couldn’t pronounce anyway who wrote about the concept of "flow." (Leslie, > do you remember who this guy is?). Basically, it was the concept of > leaping, free association that resulted in a wonderfully, productive > frame of mind that produced "satisfying" feelings to the individual > thusly engaged.
I kid you not, I read this just YESTERDAY for the first time, and the guy isn’t Norwegian, but it may be who you’re looking for. According to the book I’m reading, the term "flow" was coined by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, head of Dept of Behavioral Sciences at University of Chicago and author of "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experiences." And its defined as "the state in which learning and happiness are most completely merged…In this state, action flows effortlessly from thought and you feel strong, alert and unselfconscious. Flow is that marvelous feeling that you are in command of the present and performing at the peak of your ability." (And you didn’t remember this simple name???LOL) The book I’m reading is called Peak Learning by Ronald Gross. Lise — I’m hopelessly lost; but making good time
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lpac…@nyc.pipeline.com(Leslie E. Packer, PhD) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On May 25, 1996 14:43:31 in article <Re: Inner workings of a TS mind>, >’BWHM…@prodigy.com (Kathryn Taubert)’ wrote: >>There was a Norwegian (I think!) researcher whose name I’ve forgotten and >>couldn’t pronounce anyway who wrote about the concept of "flow." (Leslie, >>do you remember who this guy is?). >– >No. Did I _ever_ know who he was? >I mean, did I know and just forget. Or didn’t I know? And if so, why not? ><worried expression as I head for more coffee> <g> >Leslie >Leslie E. Packer, PhDlpac…@nyc.pipeline.com(Leslie E. Packer, PhD) wrote:
I’m gonna’ see if I can find this….but it’ll take a while…….bear with me……. KAT in CT
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>> There was a Norwegian (I think!) researcher whose name I’ve forgotten and >> couldn’t pronounce anyway who wrote about the concept of "flow." (Leslie, >> do you remember who this guy is?). Basically, it was the concept of >> leaping, free association that resulted in a wonderfully, productive >> frame of mind that produced "satisfying" feelings to the individual >> thusly engaged. >I kid you not, I read this just YESTERDAY for the first time, and the guy >isn’t Norwegian, but it may be who you’re looking for.
YES YES YES! And good example of "synchronicity" in action, you’re reading this just yesterday, as we were discussing it. And, an example of totally screwing up the guy’s origins because I couldn’t pronounce his name……..:-))) WONDERFUL! Now I don’t have to go looking this stuff up!! KAT in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->According to the book I’m reading, the term "flow" was coined by Mihaly >Csikszentmihalyi, head of Dept of Behavioral Sciences at University of >Chicago and author of "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experiences." And >its defined as "the state in which learning and happiness are most >completely merged…In this state, action flows effortlessly from thought >and you feel strong, alert and unselfconscious. Flow is that marvelous >feeling that you are in command of the present and performing at the peak >of your ability." >(And you didn’t remember this simple name???LOL) The book I’m reading is >called Peak Learning by Ronald Gross. Lise >>– >I’m hopelessly lost; but making good time
VERY good time, I might add!! (only one chin, for Chaim’s sake!!) KAT in CT
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Posted to alt.support.tourette & e-mailed to ucsha…@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chaim Shapiro) who on 21 May 1996 16:54:00 GMT wrote: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, >having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class >with irrelevant off the subject remarks…here’s an example….He’d >mention a king of Israel… my ts mind would start whirling… lets see >who still has a monarch…England… what did England do? Colonize >America…N.Y. was one of the first colonies… Cars are stolen a lot in >NY. My teacher used to live in NY…was his car ever stolen….. >Now all this occured within a second or two…my hand would fly up and >much to my teachers bewilderment, I’d ask about his cars being stolen in >NY. Years later, I was able to divert this brain power into comedy, >allowing me to consider tens of possible one liners all within a nano >second…
You’re talking about that whipsaw-fast free-associativeness some of us seem plagued with. I makes no sense, and even you yourself have problems following the logic of what’s being said. I’ve said before that when you hear us talk this way, you’re actually hearing us *think*. What comes out is not fully-formed speech (even though it sure sounds like it), but the "English" component of what we have been thinking about. It’s also part of the problem of us "not getting it". We let out the thoughts, and incorporate them into our public persona. It does take a while to *finally* realize that these "logical shifts" are anything but logical. As to giving an answer to a question that gone through this free association process, yeah, I’ve done it before. So’s my Dad and my brother (and Matthew!). Even when you *know*, it’s still baffling. It’s something you have to train yourself in. If you want to communicate well, you gotta develop some checks on what your hyperactive forebrain sends to your speech centers. — Mark Odegard. Odeg…@ptel.net
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On May 21, 1996 16:54:00 in article <Inner workings of a TS mind>, ‘ucsha…@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chaim Shapiro)’ wrote: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, >having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class >with irrelevant off the subject remarks…here’s an example….He’d >mention a king of Israel… my ts mind would start whirling… lets see >who still has a monarch…England… what did England do? Colonize >America…N.Y. was one of the first colonies… Cars are stolen a lot in >NY. My teacher used to live in NY…was his car ever stolen….. >Now all this occured within a second or two…my hand would fly up and >much to my teachers bewilderment, I’d ask about his cars being stolen in >NY. Years later, I was able to divert this brain power into comedy, >allowing me to consider tens of possible one liners all within a nano >second… >Anyone else ever do anything similar? >Chaim Shapiro
– My mind works like that too. I never could understand why others didn’t know I still "on the subject." <g> Jackie "face the sun, and the shadows will fall behind you."
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In article: <4nssf8$…@news.ecn.bgu.edu> ucsha…@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chaim Shapiro) writes: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, > having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class > with irrelevant off the subject remarks… <snip> > Anyone else ever do anything similar? > Chaim Shapiro
Funny you should say this. My son reported just yesterday a remark his teacher made: "John, you always make inappropriate comments." A past teacher used to call it "birdwalking." I don’t know if it’s a common term or one she made up, but it was used whenever my son wandered from the subject. I’m a good birdwalker too, by the way! Lise I’m hopelessly lost; but making good time
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On 21 May 1996, Chaim Shapiro wrote: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, > having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class > with irrelevant off the subject remarks… > Anyone else ever do anything similar? > Chaim Shapiro
Yep. My (few) friends have learned to put up with the "jumpiness" of my conversational style. Something reminds me of A, which leads to B and on to C, D, or E. So in response to a comment about A, I come out with a mini-monologue about E. If the other person involved looks particularly stunned or off balance, I sometimes try to articulate the chain of thoughts that led from A to E (but I’d really rather not). Jane
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On 21 May 1996, Chaim Shapiro wrote: > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, > having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class > with irrelevant off the subject remarks… > Anyone else ever do anything similar? > Chaim Shapiro
Sorry for responding twice to this, but after I sent my last message I remembered a time when this "jumpiness" characteristic proved an advantage in an educational setting. A couple years ago (while I was belatedly completing my BA in English) I was in a mainly-lecture course on Shakespeare’s plays after 1603. The prof said something about one of the plays, and my mind went off on one of its merry trips around the world, at the end of which I broke out laughing. The prof, needless to say, was surprised; also ready to be offended or angry. Fortunately, the stage of the mental trip that caused me to laugh — unlike any of the intervening stages! — just happened to be a reference from another Shakespeare play, albeit one from the pre-1603 period. When I explained my laughter, instead of looking like a jerk, I looked (for once) like an unusually learned student who was fluent enough in Shakespeare to make connections between the two periods into which the University has divided his work. What unusual luck, eh?! Jane
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Okay, I wonder if anyone can explain this. Kevin is 7, bright, energetic and never stops talking. TS/OCD dxd, more ocd than ts. We drove over a bridge the other day over the Mississippi River and he says, okay…what if your car had eternal gas, and they drained the river. (are you following)?? Then, you drove your car to the beginning of the river and you put a hose in the river. Now remember you have eternal gas so you never have to stop the car, which would happen first…the river would refill up or you would drive to the end of the river? Now, all this came from simply mentioning that we were going over the Mississippi. So, is this just a 7 year old mind, or do we attribute it to too many word problems at school, or what? It is still all very humorous and I find myself wondering how it could be figured out. Any math majors out there? Nanci
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Posted to alt.support.tourette & e-mailed to Nanci <r…@PioneerPlanet.infi.net> who on Wed, 22 May 1996 18:26:54 -0500 wrote: >Okay, I wonder if anyone can explain this. Kevin is 7, bright, >energetic and never stops talking. TS/OCD dxd, more ocd than ts. We >drove over a bridge the other day over the Mississippi River and he >says, okay…what if your car had eternal gas, and they drained the >river. (are you following)?? Then, you drove your car to the >beginning of the river and you put a hose in the river. Now remember >you have eternal gas so you never have to stop the car, which would >happen first…the river would refill up or you would drive to the end >of the river? Now, all this came from simply mentioning that we were >going over the Mississippi. So, is this just a 7 year old mind, or do >we attribute it to too many word problems at school, or what? It is >still all very humorous and I find myself wondering how it could be >figured out. Any math majors out there? Nanci
Doesn’t take a math major to figure this one out. You’d drown well before you hit Minneapolis, even in a drought year, as the far upper reaches of the Mississippi rarely fail. Back in 93 (during the "500 year" floods, I heard an astonishing figure. The flow past Vicksburg at flood stage in a minute (or is it a second) is greater than New York City uses in a year (and New York City represents about 6% of the entire national domestic water supply). The flood peaked at 51 feet or so at St. Louis. Even when placid, the river is wider than most lakes at St. Louis. Here on the Upper Mississippi, the bridges are more than a mile long. — Mark Odegard. Odeg…@ptel.net
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Lise L. Pyles (l…@pyles.demon.co.uk) wrote: : In article: <4nssf8$…@news.ecn.bgu.edu> ucsha…@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chaim : Shapiro) writes:
: > : > I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, : > having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class : > with irrelevant off the subject remarks… <snip> : > Anyone else ever do anything similar? : > Chaim Shapiro : > : Funny you should say this. My son reported just yesterday a remark his : teacher made: "John, you always make inappropriate comments." : A past teacher used to call it "birdwalking." I don’t know if it’s a : common term or one she made up, but it was used whenever my son wandered : from the subject. I’m a good birdwalker too, by the way! Lise : : I’m hopelessly lost; but making good time Lise, just remember…althjough birdwalking isn’t good in school, it leads to very productive, interesting and long lasting conversations…. Chaim Shapiro
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Nanci–Kevin sounds so much like my daughter. I will never forget that when she was in kindergarten the teacher sat next to her on an hour longbus ride for a field trip. The teacher tried to give each child a turn to sit next to her. Anyway, the teacher related that my daughter talked non-stop the entire way and that as a result she, the teacher, had a headache. Although she was very much aware of my daughter’s high functioning ability, she said she had never experienced anything quite like this from a kindergartener. At the start of the year the class had 6th graders pair of as "study buddies" with the kg. kids. The teacher remarked to us at our parent conference that she has to tell the older kids how to talk, work with the students. This supposedly applied to all but 2 in the class–my daughter and another girl (whose mom was a teacher). I was told that mine was on the level, if not beyond, that of the older, 6th graders. Around this time my daughter told me that the reason she talked so much was because there was so much she wanted to do with her life. That kind of sums it up–she took everything in and did not seem to shut anything out. (Possible difficulty or inability to selectively attend when expected to?). This ability and/or disability did not interfere with classroom behavior or performance where she has always been a "model" student. The tics were first exhibited during first grade. It wasn’t until about 2 years later that we realized the verbalizations might be part of the OCD pattern. A few months back someone posted that their child seemed to have what they called a "partial photographic auditory memory." That seemed to fit with my daughter’s verbal patterns. At the age of 2.5 years I heard her carry on a monologue in her car seat. She was repeating back about 15 minutes of the movie, "Heidi’s Song," verbatim–with appropriate inflection. The thought of PDD briefly crossed my mind (high functionining autism? or what may now be called Asberger’s); however, I immediately dismissed that thought because her social skills were very good. However, at times she seemed to rely more on memory than thinking skills. I had not seen this with our 2 older daughters. Around this time I decided that she should not watch videos as often as she did. This happened more with her due to a household which consisted of two working parents, 2 older siblings being involved in a multitude of activities, and parents being involved in all kinds of non-work related, primarily kid-centered activities (i.e. scout leader, PTA and other school duties from 3 different schools, etc.). Excuse the long post, my OC tendencies are taking over.
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I remeber back in high school, prior to the time I was diagnosed, having one of my teachers complain. He said, I would interupt his class with irrelevant off the subject remarks…here’s an example….He’d mention a king of Israel… my ts mind would start whirling… lets see who still has a monarch…England… what did England do? Colonize America…N.Y. was one of the first colonies… Cars are stolen a lot in NY. My teacher used to live in NY…was his car ever stolen….. Now all this occured within a second or two…my hand would fly up and much to my teachers bewilderment, I’d ask about his cars being stolen in NY. Years later, I was able to divert this brain power into comedy, allowing me to consider tens of possible one liners all within a nano second… Anyone else ever do anything similar? Chaim Shapiro
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Same here. Expecially when someone askes me how am I doing at work? My mind explodes with all possibilties. Should I say "fine"? Or complain about the work problems? Should I spill my guts about my peronal life? Share my secrets about my tourettes? Get into a conversation about politics, society, Massachusetts, people? Should I share a joke, or tell something amusing? The question leaves me hanging in the lurch. What usually happens is I just say "fine" and then that person seems upset because I never really shared anything with them, when they didn’t let me know what was safe to say to them? I think this is all a symptom of ADD. Our minds just wander and can’t seem to stick to anything. I have to really concentrate when I am in a conversation in order to stick to the topic. Ronald Goodstein — *************************************************************************** * Ronald Goodstein http://world.std.com/~rongood/resume.html First Shot Logic Simulation and Design email: rong…@world.std.com Provide all logic simulation, HDL and CAD work 617-444-2226
