Disabilitiy
Question:
Karen: You need to discuss this with your physician. However, Sleep Apnea may or may not be a disabling condition. Although the resulting symptoms may be disabling. For example , if you are a bus driver and cant stay awake …..or an accountant and cant concentrate. .e.g the symptoms resulting from the sleep apnea may……." prevent you from performing the usual duties of your usual occupation" this would be one definition of disability. the definiition of disability for Social Security disability is far more restrictive……………"prevent you from performing the duties of ANY occupation for which you are reasonably suited by reason of training and experience" There are very effective treatments for Sleep Apnea and if followed should not cause disability.
Response:
Karen wrote: > Can anyone tell me if sleep apnea is considered a disability. Right now > I have to use a CPAP machine set at 11 cm. to sleep through the night. I > still have my good nights and my bad nights because it doesn’t help the > insomnia I have. I’ve used this machine since September of ‘96, and I > still find it difficult to even get my housework done sometimes. Is it > possible to keep a job? I find it very difficult to do simple things > sometimes. Can a person with sleep apnea lead a normal life? Thanks > ahead of time for any help. > Karen
Karen, most people can be successfully treated for their apnea, so that normal life can return. I’ve been on CPAP over 2 years now, and everyone around me will vouch that I am normal now compared to two years ago. I function fine as long as I get 6-7 hours of sleep a night, which is easy to do with my CPAP. Dave
Response:
Karen, Sleep apnea is considered a disability. You are covered under the Americans wiith Disabilities Act. Although I have not applied for any type of disability, I am in the process of suing my employer over my rights. A
Response:
to Karen re disability question…… Sleep Apnea may or may not cause a disabling condition………but as one other response mentioned……it is successfully treated in most instances. The definition of disability usually under most insurances is the…. inability to perform the duties of your own usual occupation……… for example a bus driver who cant stay aawake would be considered disabled for that occupation. For social security disability the definition is tougher……..inablity to perform the duties of ANY occupation for which you are reasonably suited by reason of education, training and experience………for example a bus driver with a college degree in accounting who could still perform that occupation would not be disabled. It certainly is to your benefit to work on resolving the problem. Most insurance co’s would make sure you got the appropriate treatment before considering you disabled.
Response:
AGOT7564 wrote: > Karen, > Sleep apnea is considered a disability. You are covered under the > Americans wiith Disabilities Act. Although I have not applied for any > type of disability, I am in the process of suing my employer over my > rights. > A
I’m curious and am in need of enlightenment. I am also not commenting on the merits of your suit since I don’t know anything about it, but would ask in general… Who considers OSA to be a disability (Federal, State, Local, Neighbors?), and is it a disability only as long as it’s untreated or is it a disability regardless? Is having it grounds for a medical early retirement and is it covered under SSI? I admit to being confused over this issue. I can understand untreated OSA being classified as a "functional impairment" – whatever that is 
. I have it, and there were days before CPAP when I found it extremely difficult to do my job, but I did it anyway. I also have poor vision (another functional impairment), but can do my job with the help of glasses. Is it a question of "degree" of impairment? And if so, what’s the line between impairment and compensatable disability as far as OSA is concerned? Has this been decided by the Courts? Or is it that I don’t have the proper definitions? What is a disability, anyway? Does anyone really know? Thanks, Charles Newbury
Response:
Karen <kel…@mail.gte.net> writes: >Can anyone tell me if sleep apnea is considered a disability. Right now >I have to use a CPAP machine set at 11 cm. to sleep through the night. I >still have my good nights and my bad nights because it doesn’t help the >insomnia I have. I’ve used this machine since September of ‘96, and I >still find it difficult to even get my housework done sometimes. Is it >possible to keep a job? I find it very difficult to do simple things >sometimes. Can a person with sleep apnea lead a normal life? Thanks >ahead of time for any help. > Karen
Either you are suffering from other conditions and/or the treatment for sleep apnea is not working. You need to perhaps have another sleep study and/or a second opinion. If sleep apnea is treated, and for most people it can be, the only impact it has on your life jis for the few minutes you are wearing the CPAP before you fall asleep–and a little bit of time to maintain the system. You may have some social and psychological adjustment to feeling awake during the day, however! — Jerry Halberstadt. *President, New Technology Publishing, Inc: Health & Business Resources *Principal, FORESIGHT: Visionary business plans. * PHANTOM SLEEP PAGE <http://www.newtechpub.com/> *<halbe…@world.std.com> * 6 W.Blvd. POB 1737, Onset MA 02558 USA.
Response:
In article <5ctfr4$…@msunews.cl.msu.edu>, f…@nospam.nospsam (Darren Meahl) writes: >How do the rest of you OSA sufferers feel about this? I’ve only been >on a CPAP for 5 months, and I certainly don’t feel like I did 3 years >ago. I was hoping that I would return to "normal" in time. Did the >rest of you? Or am I dreaming that I will ever return to being an >energetic, productive person again?
I don’t have sleep apnea, but my husband does and has been on CPAP for 10 years. However, as an observer of the sleep scene, it seems to me that having a disorder considered an "official" disability is a two-edged sword. Yes, it would be good to have limitations recognized so that one is not discriminated against, can request mitigation under the ADA, or may apply for various necessary benefits. However, doesn’t the "disability" label carry the potential for having some privileges (rights?) abridged or revoked: driving, flying, serving on shipboard, working in certain professions, etc. It seems to me that "disability" should be based on some objective test. For example, some researchers are working on a "fitness for duty" test in which, for a given task (say, monitoring the control room at a nuclear reactor, or driving a school bus) you would have to meet certain task-specific criteria (say, able to stay awake and alert in a monotonous environment for x minutes, or able to pass a driving alertness simulaton test). So if you had sleep apnea, the issue would not be "do you have this disorder?" but "are you treated effectively enough to perform the task adequately?" Such an objective test would prevent people from having their drivers’ licenses revoked just because they have a disorder such as narcolepsy or sleep apnea, and would allow people whose treatment leaves them with some problems to still obtain the benefits they need. My guess is that the sleep medicine community will eventually push for this type of system. I guess it’s up to us consumers to make sure it’s fair. Sally
Response:
Let me prefice, I am not in a lawyer or in the EEO. I know that apnea sufferers can be any size etc., but the majority are overweight men (like myself). ADA and the REHAB Act of 1973 do not consider physical size a disability unless it is way beyond morbid obesity. If your apnea is "cured" by CPAP or other artificial means, then it is doubtful that you would be considered disabled by these acts. ADA provides adaptive equipment at the office not at home. Case in point, if you are disabled motorically and do not have the finances or ability to drive yourself to work, your employer does not have to provide transportation to and from work. They would only have to provide transportation from work to another work related activity. Otherwise, blind people would be given a guide dog, or a $25,000.00 braille display computer system to use at home for non-business related purposes. For those who wish to pursue this option, remember that you could cause damamge to those whom really have a disability. Apnea is a sleeping disorder that, in most cases, can be helped when it is most important, at night. For those of us larger than life people, work on the neverending struggle of loosing as much weight over the years as possible. (I’m a professional at loosing and gaining and trying again to get smaller!) My doctor said it could reduce my apnea enough that I MAY not have to use the CPAP anymore. Although my respiratory therapis is thin enough to be blown away with a big gust of wind, and is still using his (for over 15 years.) Remember this is all in MHO.
Response:
Untreatable apnea might be a disability. I know I felt disabled before I was diagnosed and got a CPAP. However, I do not feel disabled now that I have treatment. I would truly resent my Social Security taxes paying an ongoing disability benefit to someone who is able to function normally and productively and who is able to pursue a career without the need for any special work-place accommodation. Only if your work requires sleeping on the job and a CPAP cannot be used there would I make an exception.
Response:
<Any sufferer of sleep apnea should be given disability benefits, if <requested. I was diagnosed with OSA nearly a year ago, but after recognizing the symptoms I realize I have been affected nearly all my adult life. I have been on Bi pap since I was diagnosed and am happy to say I enjoy a full productive and enjoyable life. I have found the Bi Pap to be a bit inconvienient, but it has brought my wife back to our bedroom, has allowed me to read a book more than one page at a time, watch a movie without falling asleep and not fall asleep in the car. My life is 100+% better, I am by no means ready to declare myself disabled simply to collect SSA benefits. I HAVE JUST BEGUN TO LIVE!!! In case you think my OSA is mild: 90 episodes per hour Up to 54 seconds in duration 70% oxygen
Response:
Very interesting considerations. On 1 Feb 1997 03:49:15 GMT, jso…@aol.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t have sleep apnea, but my husband does and has been on CPAP for 10 >years. >However, as an observer of the sleep scene, it seems to me that having a >disorder considered an "official" disability is a two-edged sword. Yes, >it would be good to have limitations recognized so that one is not >discriminated against, can request mitigation under the ADA, or may apply >for various necessary benefits. However, doesn’t the "disability" label >carry the potential for having some privileges (rights?) abridged or >revoked: driving, flying, serving on shipboard, working in certain >professions, etc. >It seems to me that "disability" should be based on some objective test. >For example, some researchers are working on a "fitness for duty" test in >which, for a given task (say, monitoring the control room at a nuclear >reactor, or driving a school bus) you would have to meet certain >task-specific criteria (say, able to stay awake and alert in a monotonous >environment for x minutes, or able to pass a driving alertness simulaton >test). So if you had sleep apnea, the issue would not be "do you have >this disorder?" but "are you treated effectively enough to perform the >task adequately?"
This "fitness for duty" idea kind of scares me, and I’ll tell you why. It does not address the concept of pain or, for lack of a better word, what I would call Physiologic Alarm. Of course, the idea of disability, in itself, can be ambiguous. For instance, I would postulate that most people today who are on disability, could do some form of work. Many incapacitated people could still greet customers, watch for pilferage, count items or other things. I believe that Social Security Administration has probably found a nice balance to differentiate when expectations of work become inappropriate. Except with sleep apnea. "Fitness for duty" implies that I could take someone with arthritis, and ask them to use their fingers to pick up first a pen, then two pens, then a mini-flashlight, then a coffee cup, then a telephone, then a heavy book, then a suitcase, etc . . . What we risk overlooking is this person’s pain. Even at the level of the single pen, the person endured pain, but was still able to lift it. Even without lifting anything, the person’s hand was still in pain. The question then becomes, how much pain must someone be able to tolerate before being considered disabled? Sleep apnea is probably the most obscure, unknown, misunderstood, chameleon-like disorder of the twentieth century. I MEAN, SPECTATORS ACTUALLY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE CONTEMPLATING INSTEAD A DIAGNOSIS OF DEPRESSION! Sleep apnea, implicit with snoring, connotes poor character, behavioral defects, personality flaws, etc, and this stigma is still hard to shake — even in the government. Due to desensitization, at least with depression there is some dignity! Can you believe that! But what is forgotten is that somnolence is pain. It is physiologic alarm. In my opinion, the real question that needs to be addressed with regards to disability, is not how productive or cognitive someone with a sleep disorder CAN BE, but rather how much pain should we allow the person to endure? How much sustained somnolence should be considered humane in order to be capitalistic in a civilized society? Isn’t fighting somnolence to focus on a task the same as a monkey getting electric shocks each time it drifts into REM sleep for the sake of sleep deprivation experimentation? Anyone who is devastatingly tired can do miraculous feats in order to survive. But since we are no longer in a jungle, might not the requested feats suddenly transform into savagery? In a jungle, apneics would perish from being unable to hunt. The constitution was designed as the antithesis of a natural state. It was crafted to temper heirarchical ecosystems and predator/prey relationships. Even so, aren’t we still in a jungle? The arthritic could lift the pen. Should he/she then be compelled to work in a pen factory? Is pain irrelevent? If an apneic could go eight hours without falling on the floor for a nap, does this mean he/she is normal? What tenet in our constitution takes precedence — equality, or capitalism? Is capitalism the foundation of our government, or does it rest on top of equality and inalienable rights for its very viability? Anyway, I wax political, but I hope that these issues are pondered down the road. Objective tests CAN be used for hobbies and privileges that could pose dangerous to others, because, face it, if reasonable tests are failed, then these hobbies and privileges are probably not engaged in often anyway. For instance, with my apnea I can drive okay locally and have for years. But when I drove 400 miles last summer, I had some problems, and ultimately got in a wreck (even though it wasn’t my fault, but I still could have avoided it if I was more vigilant). If someone denied me driving a 400 mile distance in a short unit of time (7-8 hours), I would not complain because I would not do it again anyway, and would not want to. The primary consideration? Pain must take precedence over production when making a determination for disability. Pressing the bounds of pain is inhumane. IMHO Best wishes, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Such an objective test would prevent people from having their drivers’ >licenses revoked just because they have a disorder such as narcolepsy or >sleep apnea, and would allow people whose treatment leaves them with some >problems to still obtain the benefits they need. >My guess is that the sleep medicine community will eventually push for >this type of system. I guess it’s up to us consumers to make sure it’s >fair. >Sally
Response:
The ADA in itself is so vague that the meaning of the law depends on who you are talking to. The laws does state that a disability is a physical or mental impairment that affects a major part of ones life. I would consider sleep apnea a disabilty. To have to sleep every night with a mask and CPAP is not in the norm. Knowing that if your power goes out and that you have to find a place with electricity in order to get a good nights sleep, is that not different than a person that does not have apnea. I do agree that apnea is a disability, I would object to measures like saving parking places for those with sleeping disorders. The ADA was not written to say what a disability is, but to protect those who may have a disability from being discriminated against. At the beginning of the year the company I work for announced that they were downsizing, and that no one would loose their job, or recieve a cut in pay. I have worked for this company for 3 years in the management end. Two weeks later all the managers were called in for a meeting where it was stated that a number of us were going to be demoted with a major cut in salary. When I was called in and informed that I was one of the chosen to be demoted I asked on what grounds. I was verbally given 4 reasons, one of them being "energy level". I also have narcolepsey. In turn I am now handing over to my company a multi-million dollar law suit, based on the facts that they violated my rights under the ADA. They are many more issues that back up my claim, but tell me that I am not disabled when a major company demotes me because of my energylevel. That is the true function, in my opinion, of the ADA. AG
Response:
AGOT7564 wrote [in part]: > The ADA in itself is so vague that the meaning of the law depends on who > you are talking to. The laws does state that a disability is a physical > or mental impairment that affects a major part of ones life. I would > consider sleep apnea a disabilty. To have to sleep every night with a > mask and CPAP is not in the norm. Knowing that if your power goes out and > that you have to find a place with electricity in order to get a good > nights sleep, is that not different than a person that does not have > apnea.
If a CPAP allows me to carry on in my career and hobbies with apnea to the same extent that someone without apnea can, then I am not disabled. If treatment for any health condition allows you to do the same you are not disabled. And you should not expect my FICA taxes to pay for a disability benefit for you.
Response:
Regarding whether or not Sleep Apnea is considered a disability and/or would be covered under the ADA: Sleep Apnea is certainly an illness as defined by the ADA ….There are however many complicated issues when trying to determine whether or not discrimination has occurred. For example : is it discriminatory to deny employment to a bus driver who has sleep apnea? If the sleep apnea was successfully treated the answer probably is ……yes. An Employer must also make reasonable accomodations for a person with a disability……this would be very difficult to do for a bus driver. Is sleep apnea covered as a disability for purposes of Social Security disability? If the individual is under treatment but is not fully recovered to the point of being able to perform the duties of ANY occupation for which they are reasonably suited by training, education or experience…they are disabled and can Qualify for SSDI but the disability must be expected to last 12 months.. Most private disability insurance requires only that an individual be disable for HIS OWN occupation.
Response:
Darren Meahl wrote: > How do the rest of you OSA sufferers feel about this? I’ve only been > on a CPAP for 5 months, and I certainly don’t feel like I did 3 years > ago. I was hoping that I would return to "normal" in time. Did the > rest of you? Or am I dreaming that I will ever return to being an > energetic, productive person again?
Makes me wonder, too. I don’t know just what the effects have been on me from having untreated sleep apnea for 10+ years. How do I know what "normal" feels like? Good point. I’ve been on the machine for 5 months now and certainly do feel more rested and energetic, but I still don’t feel totally up to par. I know a lot of this can be from being too fat. But is this depression I’ve had one of habit now? I have other factors still contributing to a feeling of off and on depression. SAD is affecting me very badly right now, too. I have a lightbox, homemade by my hubby, and I can tell it is helping me better than last year when I had none. But I have so many unproductive days yet. I had never thought of the possibility of this being looked at as a disability and getting benefits paid to me because of it. Very interesting question and one that I would like to know more about. > Darren > me…@pilot.msu.edu > http://pilot.msu.edu/user/meahl/ > Unsolicited Email of a commercial nature delivered to this > address is subject to a $500 charge. Emailing such items, > whether automatically or manually, constitutes acceptance > of and agreement to this charge.
– -Jo- quo…@ionsys.com —————–> Women don’t have hot flashes, they have power surges.
Response:
On 25-Feb-97 10:03:54, RandallBart assaulted me about Re: Disabilitiy >Doug Ruth wrote: >> Sleep apnea is probably the most obscure, unknown, misunderstood, >> chameleon-like disorder of the twentieth century. I MEAN, SPECTATORS >> ACTUALLY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE CONTEMPLATING >> INSTEAD A DIAGNOSIS OF DEPRESSION! Sleep apnea, implicit with >> snoring, connotes poor character, behavioral defects, personality >> flaws, etc, and this stigma is still hard to shake — even in the >> government. Due to desensitization, at least with depression there is >> some dignity! Can you believe that! But what is forgotten is that >> somnolence is pain. It is physiologic alarm. >What are you talking about? I have no problem explaining sleep apnea to >people. When I sleep, my throat collapses and I can’t breathe. No one >has suggested that this is a behavioral defect.
I think *I* know what Doug was talking about. My Sleep Apnea is OSA like so many others but I have a physical problem accepting CPAP and a mental one, too. When I feel air in such a small section over my face, I begin to choke. I was one of those kids who, if I pushed high on a swing, on the side going forward so the wind hit my face, I choked all the way through to the other side. I never DID hang my head out the window of the car etc. Like most of you, yes I am overweight – it comes with the territory – but fatty throat tissue is not the cause of *MY* OSA. I have a relatively normal looking jaw when you take a photograph of me but when you talk to a Maxillo specialist, I dont have the bone structure about the face to do a facial/jaw reconstruction. The narrowness of my throat is my problem. How many of you have had POSITIVE proof that they had sleep apnea from babyhood? When I was 5 and had my tonsils out, the nursing staff saw my mother come in at visiting time to see me and came rushing over asking her what was wrong with me as I "rolled the pupils back in my head, laid with eyes half open, went white as a ghost and stopped breathing altogether, meaning we had to shake him awake all the time during the night". My mother told them not to worry because "He has done this all his life". Yes, I am a Sleep Apnea victim and yes everyone (just about) has heard of it but when you say the name of the problem to someone, they say "Oh you dont sleep well, eh? I have that problem sometimes, too". Crap! What about family member? Well, last year after 2.5 years of not being able to work, not being able to go out in the afternoon because it is such a strain on me to stay awake, my in-laws plan an all day picnic for the father in law’s 60th. At about 2AM, feeling sick to the stomach with the effort of concentrating to stay awake and not really making much sense of what people were saying, my mother in law says something about pensioner benefits to me and how ANYONE can get them if they are disabled for a certain length of time. I remarked that maybe I ought to look into that and both she and the father in law said, in unison "You have to be disabled and not able to work to get that. Dont be stupid!" to which I replied "Well what the hell do you think I have been doing with the past 2.5 years of my life, anyway? I cant work. I cant damnedwell stay AWAKE without a lot of effort at this time of day MOST days. What do you think THAT makes me? Just plain LAZY?" and of course, the look of shock on their faces made me feel they finally understood some of it. After 2.5 years, SOME of it. They went to my wife and asked her to explain it all and since that day, they have ATTEMPTED understanding. So let me ask you this- if after 2.5 years my own IN-LAWS didnt understand what i was going through, how do you expect an employer (should you have a job or a prospective employer if you dont) who really has no direct contact with OSA to understand? After all, I never DID work in any medical related field. In fact, the only reason I found out I had OSA was because one day, while playing air hockey on one of those machines with a friend, I went all out to beat him (which I did) and in doing so felt a pain in my chest that started marching down my left arm (I am right handed) which eventually started making me lose feeling in my fingers. I stopped, sat on a chair for what turned out to be 15 mins but felt more like about 2 to me and in that time, my vision narrowed from normal to tunnel vision with all little explosions across it. when my vision returned and the pain receded, I was left in clothes that looked for all the world like I had been out in the rain. I sweated THAT much. Naturally I thought I had JUST escaped a major heart problem and went to the doctor who confirmed I had abnormal spikes on the ECG so sent me to a heart specialist who told me I had nothing wrong with my heart (after one of those things where they put die in your veins and heart) so referred me to a Sleep Apnea specialist. Gee it was only last year that I had to talk seriously to my wife about slowing down when she walked because it was a strain. SHE didnt really understand fully. Then there was last June. I have an insurance policy against my income and it is paying me at the moment. The company sent me for a sleep study at a specialist of their choice. I went there, had it done and asked the specialist THERE, when he had a chance to look at the results, what he thought. He told me that basically, I couldnt be any worse and still be alive. He also reported that finding in better terms to the insurance company. So what did they do this month? Sent me to ANOTHER sleep specialist of their choosing. What did this guy say? He said "What the hell are you going here? Your results are quite clear. The people at that company are idiots."… so even THEY dont understand. So, count yourself lucky. In my experience, all my life till being diagnosed I was called LAZY though I tried like HECK to do the best I could and you know, I believed my parents, my wife’s parents, employers and so on until the day the sleep apnea specialist told me that I lack oxygen and as a result I appear to modify my own behaviour to try and cope. He said that this was rather normal for people who had had the problem all their lives. Most people can be told what causes it and STILL not understand because "but you LOOK OK – just tired"…. yeah right. Some of the famil on my wife’s side STILL think I am just an idiot who doesnt want to mix with them. …and the last bit? Look it up for yourselves or consult anyone with an ounce of sense in OSA – which by NO means is ALL Sleep specialists. Untreated Sleep Apnea is life threatening. Maybe not now while you mild cases dont have it badly but dont think you can grow out of it – it is cumulative. You feel you cant do that exercise as much as last year so downturn a bit here and there, putting on a bit more weight now and then and eventually it WILL grab you. Even IF you just break a leg and have to be sedentary for a while, it takes THAT opportunity, too. Most people killed by OSA actually have it diagnosed as a heart complaint that finally killed him/her after 2 years but the fact was that until the OSA got bad, they didnt have a heart problem and there may have been no known cases of heart probs in that family. When you get to my stage, untreated, you can expect MAYBE 10 years more life *IF* you are real careful. Oh yes, there are those about to shout me down but think of this: I have GOOD arteries – no blockages to my heart, no SIGN of impending blockages and a strong healthy heart, otherwise right NOW. Do you know what ANGINA is? Angina is a heart problem caused, normally, by people WITH artery problems to their heart which cause a blockage and reduce the flow of oxygen INTO the heart and eventually it DOES damage the heart. I have NO artery problems but I still have reduced oxygen in the bloodstream to EVERY organ in my body so I *DO* have angina (diagnosed, too) by default. Maybe it was a different way to get there but there I am. If there is no treatment to come out that I can use within 5 years, my heart WILL be damaged and that is that. If there is no treatment in the next 2 years, that damage started ALSO is cumulative and I very well may not be here because it isnt just angina damage itself, it is the constant damage done to my heart because my whole body is under constant stress. This may have sounded like a big whinge to you all but I didnt MEAN it to sound as such. Take it as one if you like, it matters not, to me. What it WAS meant to point out is that Sleep Apnea is often misunderstood even by the sufferers. Dont take it for granted. It is like that cat in the long grass slowly crawling this way and you are like a little RObin blythely ignorant of it. The cat has fangs! In my humble opinion, your DERISION of Doug’s statement was preposterous, mate. ———————————————————————— |Sysop of Amiga’s Sci-Fi BBS gr…@hartingdale.com.au Chow Chow lover! | |Are you old when you enjoy a good headbanger record with others over 40?| ————————————————————————
Response:
On Sun, 09 Feb 1997 18:00:45 -0800, David Ross <ros…@acm.org> wrote: >If a CPAP allows me to carry on in my career and hobbies with apnea to >the same extent that someone without apnea can, then I am not disabled. >If treatment for any health condition allows you to do the same you are >not disabled. And you should not expect my FICA taxes to pay for a >disability benefit for you.
Personally, I believe that there are many convoluting variables involved in most sleep apnea syndromes, and not all might be as clearly delineated as yours. I will first always question one’s judgement of another’s ailment if viewed through the lenses of the "arrogance of health", and, secondly, I will always question someone’s subjective perception of normalcy if they’ve had a moderate dose of sleep apnea. Doug
Response:
Doug Ruth wrote: > Sleep apnea is probably the most obscure, unknown, misunderstood, > chameleon-like disorder of the twentieth century. I MEAN, SPECTATORS > ACTUALLY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE CONTEMPLATING > INSTEAD A DIAGNOSIS OF DEPRESSION! Sleep apnea, implicit with > snoring, connotes poor character, behavioral defects, personality > flaws, etc, and this stigma is still hard to shake — even in the > government. Due to desensitization, at least with depression there is > some dignity! Can you believe that! But what is forgotten is that > somnolence is pain. It is physiologic alarm.
What are you talking about? I have no problem explaining sleep apnea to people. When I sleep, my throat collapses and I can’t breathe. No one has suggested that this is a behavioral defect. On the other hand, I also have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Tourette Syndrome. These conditions fit your description exactly. Go read news:alt.support.ocd and news:alt.support.tourette before you make this preposterous claim again. — .//==================================================. // Randall Bart mailto:Barti…@aol.com or mailto:Barti…@worldnet.att.net // .==================================================//.
Response:
dr…@kdcol.com (Doug Ruth) wrote: >I am currently in the application process for disability for a sleep >apnea complex. I know that sleep apnea should be considered a >disability. You know that sleep apnea should be considered a >disability. And in the SSA literature, there are brief references >made to "sleep-disordered breathing", and references to the fact that >sleep apnea affects some people differently than others (though I >would claim this relates to how evolved or mature the apnea-complex >is).
How do the rest of you OSA sufferers feel about this? I’ve only been on a CPAP for 5 months, and I certainly don’t feel like I did 3 years ago. I was hoping that I would return to "normal" in time. Did the rest of you? Or am I dreaming that I will ever return to being an energetic, productive person again? Darren me…@pilot.msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/user/meahl/ Unsolicited Email of a commercial nature delivered to this address is subject to a $500 charge. Emailing such items, whether automatically or manually, constitutes acceptance of and agreement to this charge.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Doug Ruth wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:04:57 -0800, Karen <kel…@mail.gte.net> wrote: > <snip about disability> > I am currently in the application process for disability for a sleep > apnea complex. I know that sleep apnea should be considered a > disability. You know that sleep apnea should be considered a > disability. And in the SSA literature, there are brief references > made to "sleep-disordered breathing", and references to the fact that > sleep apnea affects some people differently than others (though I > would claim this relates to how evolved or mature the apnea-complex > is). <snip> > I would recommend that if there were enough people with sleep apnea > who were denied disability benefits, they mobilize and begin the > processions of a class-action lawsuit against Social Security > Administration. Personally, even if I do get benefits, they have put > me through more indignity and scrutiny than I or any other apneic > deserve. They have abused their power as a governmental entity, > showing bureaucratic arrogance in the way that a cop through negative > conditioning will treat even nice people like crap. > Just an editorial > Doug
As a long-time CPAP user, who, by the way, has found CPAP a great help with the symptoms even if far from a cure, I have some appreciation for your concerns. You have a rough row to hoe getting SSA disability based on sleep apnea. Which is not to say it won’t happen–just that it will be difficult since relatively few people have apnea that is bad enough after treatment to meet the disability definition. The standard that *Congress* set for SSA disability is that you have a medically determinable impairment that results in an inability to do *any* work that you might be suited for considering your experience and education and which will last at least a year or end in death–a very strict standard. It doesn’t mean only that you can’t do your old job or that you feel lousy–rather that you can’t do *any* job. I know a number of folks who feel lousy indeed, but who clearly do not meet the disability standard. And, according to the law, it is up to you to prove your impairment is disabling rather than that the government prove you are not disabled. (This is a legal distinction–in my experience, SSA tries hard to help many people document their claims.) I don’t know your situation or what you have gone through. I *have* personally witnessed a number of situations where the "indignity and scrutiny" turned out to be a real effort on the part of the disability examiner to make sure that *all* medical evidence that could *support* your claim had been obtained. I suppose it goes the other way, too, on occasion. Sometimes it’s easy to make a disability determination–the facts are very clear one way or the other. A lot of the time it is very difficult–lots of "gray" or medical reports that are vague and incomplete. A good examiner will try to get more evidence in the latter cases. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. But I surely would want my claim decided on a complete file rather than one that is incomplete–especially when the incomplete file will almost certainly result in a denial. Good luck on your quest. — =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= My employer disclaims all responsibility for my opinions D. Skidmore - dski…@halcyon.com - Bellevue, WA USA Please do NOT send unsolicited commercial e-mail SPAMS routinely forwarded to postmas…@yourservice.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Response:
On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:04:57 -0800, Karen <kel…@mail.gte.net> wrote:
<snip about disability> I am currently in the application process for disability for a sleep apnea complex. I know that sleep apnea should be considered a disability. You know that sleep apnea should be considered a disability. And in the SSA literature, there are brief references made to "sleep-disordered breathing", and references to the fact that sleep apnea affects some people differently than others (though I would claim this relates to how evolved or mature the apnea-complex is). There are some misconceptions that still need to be dispelled, however. First, the idea that someone is "cured" with CPAP is a misrepresentation, and a wanton miscalculation–especially if your apnea is long-standing. One of the big mistakes made today is when a doctor or professional hears an apneic say, "I feel better with the CPAP". Professionals will misinterpret this and instead believe that they heard the patient say, "I am totally cured the way I was before I had sleep apnea". The truth is, and we must always remember, that apneics have forgotten what "normal" feels like. When they say they feel better on CPAP, what they are actually saying is that they are no longer in the pain of somnolence (somnolence is pain; it is perpetual resistance to bodily, compensatory warning mechanisms), or that the pain is finally tolerable. They are not saying that they are completely vigilant and cognitively restored; they are not saying that all the years of physiological and mental damage can be reversed. Those who have been involved chronically with it will typically not start college and go on to be NASA scientists simply because they are on CPAP. More often than not, they will be forever wounded, traumatized, and mentally reduced from their "original state"–CPAP or not. Their vistas will be closed in. The marketing hype for CPAP has drowned out the truth–that CPAP is a subtherapeutic, archaic, unrefined, rudimentary treatment for a very complex breathing disorder, and all professionals should never forget that. Notwithstanding the benefits CPAP has demonstrated, the actual percentages for consistent, long-term success with CPAP are not great, and should not be generalized to the entire apneic population who, to a large degree, do not tolerate CPAP ideally. Any sufferer of sleep apnea should be given disability benefits, if requested. With supportable polysomnography data, the burden of proof should fall on SSA, and not the sufferer. The study data should vindicate entirely the sufferer. Even if the sufferer were to say he felt WELL, this should be considered as unacceptable evidence to use in making a determination, and should be further considered stricken from the record due to potential self-incrimination (remember? apneics’ perceptions can be skewed?). CPAP and BIPAP studies should be irrelevent in the application process, and instead considered as capricious, transient, and unpredictable data subject to capricious alteration and mutation. Sufferers did not ask that our society be capitalistic–and capitalistically Darwinian, at that; sufferers did not ask that the means for survival in a civilized society depend SOLELY and UNEQUIVOCALLY upon unattainable demands of energy and cognitive resources; sufferers did not ask for a disease that is obscure, connoted with personality defects, and nebulous to the layperson AND mainstream medicine. I would recommend that if there were enough people with sleep apnea who were denied disability benefits, they mobilize and begin the processions of a class-action lawsuit against Social Security Administration. Personally, even if I do get benefits, they have put me through more indignity and scrutiny than I or any other apneic deserve. They have abused their power as a governmental entity, showing bureaucratic arrogance in the way that a cop through negative conditioning will treat even nice people like crap. Just an editorial Doug
