mad
Question:
>… and, as they say, a camel is a horse designed by a committee.
Welcome Alex’s Mom! Do you know what a NOFF award is? Cause you deserve one for sure! (Check with Alex!) I know when Alex gets that table she’ll treasure it forever, not for *what* it is, but because of *where* it came from! Marietta "When nothing is sure, everything is possible." -Margaret Drabble "The superior person knows the inferiority of such a thought" ~MVB ‘99 AST visitor and contributor since -1996
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>And run like heck if you happen >to run into someone with the idea that psychoanalysis treats TS. >Vicki H.
This statement confuses me, but perhaps I’m reading it too literally. Psychotherapy can treat the surrounding misunderstanding, social issues, self-esteem issues, etc. from the fallout of living with the tics, obsessions and compulsions of TS, and this can be one of the biggest parts of understanding and dealing with TS. Also, therapy (CBT) for OCD is most effective. We’ve had no use for a psychiatrist or neurologist, although we did find a good psychiatrist who also does psychotherapy. We didn’t stick with him, because psychotherapy with our existing child psychologist was the most effective route for us back when things were rough. BlessedBy2 See my Website, Tourette Syndrome – Now What ? http://members.home.net/blessedby2
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On 30 Nov 1999 16:46:01 GMT, blessed…@aol.com (BlessedBy2) wrote: >>And run like heck if you happen >>to run into someone with the idea that psychoanalysis treats TS. >>Vicki H. >This statement confuses me, but perhaps I’m reading it too literally. >Psychotherapy can treat the surrounding misunderstanding, social issues, >self-esteem issues, etc. from the fallout of living with the tics, obsessions >and compulsions of TS, and this can be one of the biggest parts of >understanding and dealing with TS.
I didn’t say psychotherapy; I totally concur that psychotherapy can be very beneficial, for all the reasons given. I said psychoANALYSIS – the Freudian, ‘insight’-based theory, the ideas that too early toilet training caused TS or too much/too little masturbation caused TS (read Howard Kushner’s book for some real-life examples of the ‘experts’ who had these sorts of ideas about TS earlier in this century). TS is a neurological condition; psychotherapy can help one deal more effectively with the condition, but psychoanalysis – looking for some deep-seated reason from childhood for having TS in the first place – isn’t going to do a darn thing for it. Vicki H.
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OK JO. I’ll bite. What is Frotteurism? Gary ——- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joanne Cohen wrote: > DSM-IV also lists caffeine dependence (most of us!) as a substance > disorder. Technically, this would make it a mental illness for those of > us who enbibe in, say, 3-4 cups of Joe a day, or have ever felt headachy > when cutting back. > I think that even "classic" mental illness is biological in origin. So > what does THAT mean? > I challenge anyone to bring me a human for whom I cannot find SOMETHING > in DSM-IV for which s/he meets the criteria. Frotteurism doesn’t > count!!! > Joanne (who can just picture many of you going to look up frotteurism!) > hee hee hee
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gjmar…@pop.flash.net wrote: > OK JO. I’ll bite. What is Frotteurism? > Gary
Oh, I guess I asked for that one! Frotteurism is the "recurrent intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person. Ok, now that I’ve diagnosed %96 of the males, and maybe %46 of the femmes, let me add you also have to have clinically significant distress or impairment in various areas of functioning to be eligible for this Sexual D/O. You may be a victim of Frotteurism if you have ever travelled on the Green Line in Boston thru the Fenway before a Red Sox game, or have been to Italy! Now, to play devil’s advocate, and to preach to the choir, on a more serious side, consider a 13-year old boy with TS, who has recurrent intense fantasies (obsessions), urges (uh-huh) or behaviors (oh yeah) involving touching (duh!) and rubbing against a nonconsenting person. This behavior causes significant impairment (school, church, camp, etc.) Can a provider ‘technically’, via DMS-IV, diagnose this child with Frotteurism?? I do hope that any professional would know to look deeper into this paraphilia before rendering such a Dx. Hope everyone had a good day! I feel like a stuffed bird! Gak! Joanne
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In article <81jgoi$4pi…@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, "KATHRYN A TAUBERT" <KATAUB…@prodigy.net> wrote: > > Give me a f***ing break!!!!! Who are these clowns that decided and get > away > > with crap like that? > A committee of a handful of people who make these decisions based upon > politics as much as ‘anything else.’ > It’s just that simple…sigh… > KAT in CT
… and, as they say, a camel is a horse designed by a committee. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Joanne Cohen wrote: > DSM-IV also lists caffeine dependence (most of us!) as a substance > disorder. Technically, this would make it a mental illness for those of > us who enbibe in, say, 3-4 cups of Joe a day, or have ever felt headachy > when cutting back. > I think that even "classic" mental illness is biological in origin. So > what does THAT mean?
I think it means that our brains are just another organ in the body. We all may have the same delusion that our identity and soul, in whatever way one defines that word, lives there, just as we imagine love literally exists in our hearts. All of that could just as easily reside in the liver. > I challenge anyone to bring me a human for whom I cannot find SOMETHING > in DSM-IV for which s/he meets the criteria. Frotteurism doesn’t > count!!!
You mean that wasn’t listed in Comings’ book? > Joanne (who can just picture many of you going to look up frotteurism!) > hee hee hee
Ellen, who wonders if she should mention that she doesn’t have to look that one up… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Vicki Hill wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:07:52 -0500, "KATHRYN A TAUBERT" > > <KATAUB…@prodigy.net> wrote: > > >TS is no more a mental illness than diabetes is. > > >We CAN and often DO have some psychological ‘fallout’ from living with an > > >often difficult condition in an unforgiving world, but it has to do with how > > >we are treated and how we perceive ourselves more than anything else. > > >Talk to us more about why you are feeling this way? > > >KAT in CT > > The confusing part is that, in spite of how insurance companies split > > it up, in nature there is NO black-and-white line between psychiatric > > disorders and neurological disorders. TS is one of those disorders > > very close to that ‘imaginary’ line. TS is believed by researchers to > > be genetically related to obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is > > ‘deemed’ by the great gods(!!!) of insurance to be psychiatric in > > nature. But TS is viewed by the very same researchers – neurologists > > and psychiatrists alike – to be a neurological disorder. And quite a > > few people with TS also have OCD or some OC behaviors. This certainly > > shows just how artificial the line between neurological and > > psychiatric really is. > > But the FACT, for both TS and OCD, is that they affect the brain. > > Current technology has already given researchers a good idea of the > > specific areas of the brain being affected by both of these. They know > > some of the neurotransmitters affected by both of these. So they are > > definitely both medical in nature, both affecting the brain. You’ll > > find TS treated by both neurologists and psychiatrists. > > Vicki H.
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>You’ll >find TS treated by both neurologists and psychiatrists. >Vicki H.
Try this one: Medicare considers it a "mental illness" so they only pay half the bill. If you see a psychiatrist for TS, they will say "I can’t help you with that because it’s neurological." If you see a neurologist, they say, I can help you with the TS ( but not with OCD if you have that, since that is psychiatric), but they send the bill to Medicare under TS code and of course it comes back as a "mental health" charge and you get stuck with a bill you can’t pay… but I guess the bottom line is, even "mental illnesses" such as bipolar are considered biological and genetic, so why the discrimination on paying for a needed service? My neurologist also informed me that illnesses such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinsons are considered "psychiatric"! Give me a f***ing break!!!!! Who are these clowns that decided and get away with crap like that?
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> Give me a f***ing break!!!!! Who are these clowns that decided and get away > with crap like that?
A committee of a handful of people who make these decisions based upon politics as much as ‘anything else.’ It’s just that simple…sigh… KAT in CT
Response:
DSM-IV also lists caffeine dependence (most of us!) as a substance disorder. Technically, this would make it a mental illness for those of us who enbibe in, say, 3-4 cups of Joe a day, or have ever felt headachy when cutting back. I think that even "classic" mental illness is biological in origin. So what does THAT mean? I challenge anyone to bring me a human for whom I cannot find SOMETHING in DSM-IV for which s/he meets the criteria. Frotteurism doesn’t count!!! Joanne (who can just picture many of you going to look up frotteurism!) hee hee hee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Vicki Hill wrote: > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:07:52 -0500, "KATHRYN A TAUBERT" > <KATAUB…@prodigy.net> wrote: > >TS is no more a mental illness than diabetes is. > >We CAN and often DO have some psychological ‘fallout’ from living with an > >often difficult condition in an unforgiving world, but it has to do with how > >we are treated and how we perceive ourselves more than anything else. > >Talk to us more about why you are feeling this way? > >KAT in CT > The confusing part is that, in spite of how insurance companies split > it up, in nature there is NO black-and-white line between psychiatric > disorders and neurological disorders. TS is one of those disorders > very close to that ‘imaginary’ line. TS is believed by researchers to > be genetically related to obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is > ‘deemed’ by the great gods(!!!) of insurance to be psychiatric in > nature. But TS is viewed by the very same researchers – neurologists > and psychiatrists alike – to be a neurological disorder. And quite a > few people with TS also have OCD or some OC behaviors. This certainly > shows just how artificial the line between neurological and > psychiatric really is. > But the FACT, for both TS and OCD, is that they affect the brain. > Current technology has already given researchers a good idea of the > specific areas of the brain being affected by both of these. They know > some of the neurotransmitters affected by both of these. So they are > definitely both medical in nature, both affecting the brain. You’ll > find TS treated by both neurologists and psychiatrists. > Vicki H.
Response:
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:07:52 -0500, "KATHRYN A TAUBERT" <KATAUB…@prodigy.net> wrote: >TS is no more a mental illness than diabetes is. >We CAN and often DO have some psychological ‘fallout’ from living with an >often difficult condition in an unforgiving world, but it has to do with how >we are treated and how we perceive ourselves more than anything else. >Talk to us more about why you are feeling this way? >KAT in CT
The confusing part is that, in spite of how insurance companies split it up, in nature there is NO black-and-white line between psychiatric disorders and neurological disorders. TS is one of those disorders very close to that ‘imaginary’ line. TS is believed by researchers to be genetically related to obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is ‘deemed’ by the great gods(!!!) of insurance to be psychiatric in nature. But TS is viewed by the very same researchers – neurologists and psychiatrists alike – to be a neurological disorder. And quite a few people with TS also have OCD or some OC behaviors. This certainly shows just how artificial the line between neurological and psychiatric really is. But the FACT, for both TS and OCD, is that they affect the brain. Current technology has already given researchers a good idea of the specific areas of the brain being affected by both of these. They know some of the neurotransmitters affected by both of these. So they are definitely both medical in nature, both affecting the brain. You’ll find TS treated by both neurologists and psychiatrists. Vicki H.
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Darren Smith wrote: > is it not true that ts is a mental illness and that we should stop trying to > deny it?
Whatever the point of your post, yours has gotten some thoughtful answers, whether it deserves them or not. I’ll answer you in the spirit of the title of your post. Are people with TS mad? No, but we can be very angry when mocked.
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:09:40 -0600, Pat Wilson <pwil…@inetnebr.com> wrote: (Aside…I’m really not sure how my non-html message got turned into html when you replied. My software doesn’t send or receive html???? I guess yours converted it? First time I ever saw one of my messages come back to me as html….) ><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> ><html> > ><p>Vicki Hill wrote: ><blockquote TYPE=CITE>You’ll find TS treated by both neurologists and psychiatrists. ><p>Vicki H.</blockquote> >When I first saw this I had to do a double take. After re-reading >this line, Vicki, I am assuming that you mean "pharmacologically treated" >by both neurologists and psychiatrists. Correct? ><p>Pat Wilson ><br> </html>
I mean simply treated, Pat. Even the TSA Medical Advisory Board is a mixture of neurologists and psychiatrists. In some areas of the country, the most knowledgeable folks on TS are neurologists. In other areas of the country, they are psychiatrists. Some are most likely neuropsychiatrists. I am NOT talking about psychoanalysis, and psychotherapy is typically left to the psychologists or psychotherapists. (At least where I live, I don’t even know of a psychiatrist who does psychoanalysis. Thankfully, that stuff has been stuffed onto the back burner for many neuropsychiatric issues. Although I do understand there may still be places in the country (and in the world) where the term psychiatrist is implied to assume a Freudian couch with a elderly doc with a beard saying, "tell me your thoughts, back to when you were a kid….". Thankfully that is NOT the case with modern psychiatry.) My son, FWIW, sees both a neurologist and a psychiatrist due to his complicated case. Office visits are virtually identical. Both docs ask how he has been doing, what symptoms have been troubling, how the meds are working. They both make suggestions as to medication tweaks, issues to address with the school or with the psychotherapist or with the other doctor. The neuro and the psych send reports back and forth and talk on the phone when necessary. It is a team effort. Not everyone with TS+ needs both – but it certainly is okay to see either a neurologist or psychiatrist for treatment of TS. Go with where the expertise lies in your area. And run like heck if you happen to run into someone with the idea that psychoanalysis treats TS. Vicki H.
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Darren writes:
is it not true that ts is a mental illness and that we should stop trying to deny it? Alex answers: Depends on how one defines "mental illness". According to the DSM-IV (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual on Mental Disorders), TS is listed as a Clinical Syndrome. But anyone who has felt a bit down or anxious after a move, divorce, or other life change could be diagnosed with the "mental illness" of "Adjustment Disorder." Stuttering is also defined in the DSM-IV, as is alcohol intoxication. In other words, every one of us fits the criteria for some mental illness at some point in our lives. However, TS is NOT a psychosis. Nor is it due to a character defect, or unresolved personal issues. Nor are the words, noises, and actions of a person’s tics indicative of what they are thinking or feeling. TS is due to a neurological condition, and it cannot be willed nor therapized away. On the other hand, a number of people with TS also suffer from OCD, ADHD, mood disorders, or other conditions which can mildly to severely impact a persons mental health. I have a mood disorder as well as TS. Often people who do’t know about the mood disorder say, "It’s a shame you have Tourette, but at least its not like you’re mentally ill." Somehow I take offense to that – its like saying that a mental illness is the most degrading, horrible thing a person can have. I just hope maybe someday the stigma of all of this will be eradicated. Neither TS nor any other diagnosis should be a "shame." Alex — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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is it not true that ts is a mental illness and that we should stop trying to deny it?
Response:
Darren Smith <darren…@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:81brk9$gqq$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net… > is it not true that ts is a mental illness and that we should stop trying to > deny it?
Darren, I don’t know if this is a ‘troll’, or you are really serious about that statement. I’m going to assume that you are serious, and perhaps truly believe that statement. TS is no more a mental illness than diabetes is. We CAN and often DO have some psychological ‘fallout’ from living with an often difficult condition in an unforgiving world, but it has to do with how we are treated and how we perceive ourselves more than anything else. Talk to us more about why you are feeling this way? KAT in CT
