Cooling a hot room without AC?

Question:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:04:23 GMT, Oscar_lives wrote: >Feed the dog several sponges soaked in bacon grease.   >That usually stops them from barking. >If that doesn’t work, fill their water bowl with a 50% mixture of >antifreeze.

Running them over with a heavy motor vehicle (Ford Excursion, International Harvester tractor, Space Shuttle transporter, etc.) can also be eminently effective in permanently stopping barking. After doing this, one can tell the owner of the former pet "oops… my brakes failed!" <wink>

Response:

"Ben" <rooo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3e6289c2.0309231541.7d89e409@posting.google.com… > No joke.  Firstly, I don’t see how Tylenol could stop a dog from > barking.  Secondly, dogs can’t metabolize acetaminophan very well.  So > unless you’re suggesting he poison them to death, I think that advice > is useless (and criminal).

NOT IF ITS PEPE LEMOCO! BWAHAHAHAHAH!

Response:

Shoot the dog and buy a window unit air conditioner. "Laureen" <TheBenne…@olypen.com> wrote in message

news:c4cae1ce.0309211048.2e4f3216@posting.google.com… > "Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in

message <news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > > Preston > I have a box fan at the end of my bed on my dresser. I boost the back > of it up a bit so the air bowls down, sleep in little, and keep a > sheet close by to cover up if mornings get a tad chilly. Your body > temps drops at night regardless too. Even if the air from the fan is a > bit warm, it is moving the air and it makes it easier to sleep. I have > a neighbor with a dog and sometimes they forget it and leave it out > all night.  On incredibly hot nights I have not been beyond knocking > on their door at 2am to tell them to take the dog in. That thing has > tourettes syndrome I swear. You just get to sleep and one big > WHOOF!!!, and the cycle repeats itself every three to 5 minutes > HORRIBLE!

Response:

>From: "cheesy rice" >Shoot the dog and buy a window unit air conditioner.

In your case, you’d need the dog to help you install the air conditioner.

Response:

Doing any of these methods is likely to temporarily remove you from the barking dogs, as you could get charged with animal cruelty. Michael "Oscar_lives" <nospam@2no_tspam.net> wrote in message

news:XQ7cb.559592$Ho3.99589@sccrnsc03… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Feed the dog several sponges soaked in bacon grease.  That usually stops > them from barking. > If that doesn’t work, fill their water bowl with a 50% mixture of > antifreeze. > "Ben" <rooo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3e6289c2.0309231541.7d89e409@posting.google.com… > > No joke.  Firstly, I don’t see how Tylenol could stop a dog from > > barking.  Secondly, dogs can’t metabolize acetaminophan very well.  So > > unless you’re suggesting he poison them to death, I think that advice > > is useless (and criminal). > > "Dave L" <nos…@rogers.com> wrote in message > <news:bD26b.74501$kH3.42078@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>… > > > Your advice is irresponsible; criminal. > > > "gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > > news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… > > > > I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home > improvement > > > > places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window > > > > farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the > > > > handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall > > > > down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the > air > > > > can’t come right back in. > > > > Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool > > > > night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think > you > > > > will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat > patty > > > > is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you > > > > could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. > > > > A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a > > > > dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." > > > > Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. > > > > — > > > > Glenn

Response:

"Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message <news:cUnab.1175$Ph5.578@edtnps84>… > <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:kimqlvkb4qvtmi4j3ghj50ps2qllnjmbcv@4ax.com… > : On 6 Sep 2003 04:53:10 -0700, chris…@btinternet.com (chrissie) > : wrote: > : > : >This may sound an eccentric solution to the heat….but I’ve found on > : >very hot nights sleeping under a wet cotton sheet, soaked and then > : >well-rung out, has a wonderfully cooling effect.  I discovered this 2 > : >years ago trying to sleep in the summer heat of southern Spain. > That sounds good, but my question is what happens to the mattress?

well I make sure the sheet covers me, but doesn’t drape onto the mattress

Response:

No joke.  Firstly, I don’t see how Tylenol could stop a dog from barking.  Secondly, dogs can’t metabolize acetaminophan very well.  So unless you’re suggesting he poison them to death, I think that advice is useless (and criminal). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Dave L" <nos…@rogers.com> wrote in message <news:bD26b.74501$kH3.42078@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>… > Your advice is irresponsible; criminal. > "gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… > > I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement > > places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window > > farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the > > handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall > > down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air > > can’t come right back in. > > Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool > > night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you > > will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat patty > > is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you > > could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. > > A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a > > dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." > > Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. > > — > > Glenn

Response:

Feed the dog several sponges soaked in bacon grease.  That usually stops them from barking. If that doesn’t work, fill their water bowl with a 50% mixture of antifreeze. "Ben" <rooo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3e6289c2.0309231541.7d89e409@posting.google.com… > No joke.  Firstly, I don’t see how Tylenol could stop a dog from > barking.  Secondly, dogs can’t metabolize acetaminophan very well.  So > unless you’re suggesting he poison them to death, I think that advice > is useless (and criminal). > "Dave L" <nos…@rogers.com> wrote in message

<news:bD26b.74501$kH3.42078@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Your advice is irresponsible; criminal. > > "gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… > > > I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement > > > places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window > > > farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the > > > handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall > > > down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air > > > can’t come right back in. > > > Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool > > > night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you > > > will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat patty > > > is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you > > > could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. > > > A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a > > > dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." > > > Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. > > > — > > > Glenn

Response:

On 6 Sep 2003 04:53:10 -0700, chris…@btinternet.com (chrissie) wrote: >This may sound an eccentric solution to the heat….but I’ve found on >very hot nights sleeping under a wet cotton sheet, soaked and then >well-rung out, has a wonderfully cooling effect.  I discovered this 2 >years ago trying to sleep in the summer heat of southern Spain.

It’s not that eccentric, why do you think we sweat on a hot day?

Response:

<m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:kimqlvkb4qvtmi4j3ghj50ps2qllnjmbcv@4ax.com… : On 6 Sep 2003 04:53:10 -0700, chris…@btinternet.com (chrissie) : wrote:

: : >This may sound an eccentric solution to the heat….but I’ve found on : >very hot nights sleeping under a wet cotton sheet, soaked and then : >well-rung out, has a wonderfully cooling effect.  I discovered this 2 : >years ago trying to sleep in the summer heat of southern Spain. That sounds good, but my question is what happens to the mattress?

Response:

"Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message <news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de>… > Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > Preston

I have a box fan at the end of my bed on my dresser. I boost the back of it up a bit so the air bowls down, sleep in little, and keep a sheet close by to cover up if mornings get a tad chilly. Your body temps drops at night regardless too. Even if the air from the fan is a bit warm, it is moving the air and it makes it easier to sleep. I have a neighbor with a dog and sometimes they forget it and leave it out all night.  On incredibly hot nights I have not been beyond knocking on their door at 2am to tell them to take the dog in. That thing has tourettes syndrome I swear. You just get to sleep and one big WHOOF!!!, and the cycle repeats itself every three to 5 minutes HORRIBLE!

Response:

My husband and I both use ear plugs and sleep with the windows open.  He started using them because of my snoring, but they are great for blocking out the barking dogs and booming ’stereo cars’.  He is the insomniac, I have the apnea.   Look for the decibel rating of 30+, Hi-school pharmacy had a good selection.  We are in Portland too and hoping for the break in the weather too. MM "Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message

news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > Preston

Response:

"Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message

news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de… > Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > Preston

You might try something like http://www.smarthome.com/6117.html I can’t vouch for it, but the idea’s interesting.   (If you can get within 25′ of the dog). As far as A/C; your best bet is a window unit.  For one room, get a small one.  (Sales-types tend to over-sell the size).  It’ll keep one room cool and the noise will help mask the dog.  Also, consider a white-noise generator. IMHO barking dogs are a scourge on the earth.  I have never understood why their owners refuse to understand the problems caused by their lovable pooches. (Note:  Issue is NOT dogs.  It’s the owners of barking dogs.) Paul R

Response:

Well done, Paul. It’s the owners.  Our 2 Golden Retrievers are inside and quiet at night. If you oversize the air conditioner the environment becomes cold and clammy. The a-c can’t dehumidify when it’s not working. So the large unit cools the small room, and then shuts off.  And the a-c unit can only cool the room it’s in. Panasonic makes a physically small 6,000 Btuh air conditioner that runs relatively quietly. BTW Paul, it was a pleasure meeting you in Mississauga. Look forward to next time! Dave L Mississauga "Paul R" <nos…@nospam.please> wrote in message

news:ApR5b.129172$3o3.9080855@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message > news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de… > > Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is > that > > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I > don’t > > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the > dogs > > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable > cooling > > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > > Preston > You might try something like http://www.smarthome.com/6117.html > I can’t vouch for it, but the idea’s interesting.   (If you can get within > 25′ of the dog). > As far as A/C; your best bet is a window unit.  For one room, get a small > one.  (Sales-types tend to over-sell the size).  It’ll keep one room cool > and the noise will help mask the dog.  Also, consider a white-noise > generator. > IMHO barking dogs are a scourge on the earth.  I have never understood why > their owners refuse to understand the problems caused by their lovable > pooches. > (Note:  Issue is NOT dogs.  It’s the owners of barking dogs.) > Paul R

Response:

I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air can’t come right back in. Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat patty is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people.   — Glenn

Response:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:29:04 GMT, Dave L wrote: >Panasonic makes a few small, quiet windshakers (window airconditioners). >That would be my choice.

I doubt you’d find a window unit anywhere in the USA after Labor Day other than installed.

Response:

Your advice is irresponsible; criminal. "gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement > places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window > farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the > handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall > down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air > can’t come right back in. > Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool > night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you > will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat patty > is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you > could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. > A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a > dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." > Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. > — > Glenn

Response:

What ever.. "Dave L" <nos…@rogers.com> thought everything was going well until  Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:13:59 GMT, when "Dave L" <nos…@rogers.com> had this to say about foul mouthed granny Linda Channell alt.support.sleep-disorder   : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your advice is irresponsible; criminal. >"gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… >> I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement >> places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window >> farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the >> handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall >> down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air >> can’t come right back in. >> Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool >> night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you >> will have to deal with the dogs.  They say Tylenol in a small meat patty >> is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)  Or, you >> could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy neighbors. >> A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a >> dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance." >> Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. >> — >> Glenn

Response:

"gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3F57F679.C4978168@yahoo.com… > I use a 20 inch Lakewood fan (about $10 on sale at many home improvement > places) to blow the hot air out of the house.  I put it in the window > farthest away from my bedroom.  The fan doesn’t fit well so I tie the > handle of the fan to the handle of the open window so it doesn’t fall > down. It is important to block any open space in that window so the air > can’t come right back in. > Then I open several windows at the other end of the house and the cool > night air comes in while I sleep.  There’s no dogs nearby.  I think you > will have to deal with the dogs. >They say Tylenol in a small meat patty > is good for stopping barking. (Feed it to the dogs, that is.)

This does work.  Dog will die from liver/kidney failure.  You are a dickhead, junior. >Or, you > could call the police since it is illegal to let dogs annoy >neighbors.

The police will cuff you and set you up with a new roommate who will undoubtedly enjoy the pleasure of your company after arresting you for poisoning the neighbors animals.  Inmates like animal abusers almost as much as they do child molesters.  Have fun. > A study I read  long time ago says that "the uncontrolled barking of a > dog is the greatest neighborhood annoyance."

A study I just made up, errr, "read" reported that those who post such studies without referencing the source are simply obnoxious assholes.  Seems they have you pegged. > Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people.

Nah.  Usenet know-it-alls and telemarketers are the worst. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Glenn

Response:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:59:04 GMT, Flycoon wrote: >"gaj" <bullypug_gum…@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Cigarette smokers and dog owners are the rudest people. >Nah.  Usenet know-it-alls and telemarketers are the worst.

Virus writers and SPAMMERS have to rank somewhere in there, along with insurance claim clerks. — Offshore a CEO: buy an ADR!

Response:

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:04:25 -0700, "Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote: >Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that >our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even >with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t >do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs >wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling >solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this >(this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. >Preston

he first thing I would do is talk to neighbors and see if the dogs are annoying them too. Then arrange to have all call the police when the dogs are barking. Police *might* do something if you call alone but if several neighbors call they *will* do something. This is from personal experience with a neighbor who played music *real* loud at night. We didn’t have to get together to coordinate, we just called spontaneously, but they did come by soon. Once you get rid of the dog problem can cool by fans, but use at least two fans one in one out, and set at different labels.

Response:

"Thad the man (m…@privacy.net)" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message <news:8enilv4p75rmn8g5mb0o7qi0o89r23hh3v@4ax.com>… > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:04:25 -0700, "Preston Crawford" > <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote: > >Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > >our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > >with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > >do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > >wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > >solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > >(this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon.

This may sound an eccentric solution to the heat….but I’ve found on very hot nights sleeping under a wet cotton sheet, soaked and then well-rung out, has a wonderfully cooling effect.  I discovered this 2 years ago trying to sleep in the summer heat of southern Spain. Best wishes Chrissie

Response:

Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. Preston

Response:

I don’t know a solution…swamp coolers work (sort of) in dry environments, but not humid ones. Panasonic makes a few small, quiet windshakers (window airconditioners). That would be my choice. Portable air conditioners need to reject heat somewhere.  So they make another part of the house warmer. Or you extend a duct out through a window…and noise is an issue. There are heat pumps that use domestic cold water as a cooling source. But then they dump the warmer water to drain, and that’s a waste. As a child we lived in Maryland/Virginia and it was hot.  An attic exhaust fan really didn’t make a difference. Good luck, let us know how you solve your problem. Dave L Mississauga "Preston Crawford" <meREMOVESPAMBL…@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message

news:bj865i$gh8qf$1@ID-183401.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last few nights here in Portland, OR. have been brutal. What’s worse is that > our stupid neighbors have dogs that bark all night. Needless to say, even > with my apnea and insomnia being treated (I sleep well most nights) I don’t > do well when it’s 90degrees indoors and can’t open the window lest the dogs > wake me up. So I was wondering, does anyone know of a good portable cooling > solution that does more than a fan does? I have two more nights of this > (this week) to get through. Hopefully we can move soon. > Preston

Response:

What sort of weird diseases do you have?

Question:

"Ineedmoney" <m…@atmycomputer.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message <news:bcascf$12b$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>… > "Animeg3282" <animeg3…@aol.compelsia> wrote in message > news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com… > > I’m anxious and depression prone. > Those are mental illness’ not diseases…. > ( and before anyone pounces on me and tells me that anxiety is normal and > not a mental illness then I am talking about social phobia and other anxiety > related disorders ) > Ed

Some people have slow metabolism and are very obese. Some people are very shy and have a lot of social anxiety. Neither is really a disease or a disorder.

Response:

>Do I? I think not. It’d be a waste of time. A few years ago I came >across a fairly detailed psychology textbook on body language, so I do >know what I’m dealing with when a chick shows interest. And when a >complete stranger goes from fig.10 "Hello gorgeous!" to fig.15 "Oh no, >what a freak", in the half-second or so when she first makes >eye-contact at close range, I know better than to try and start a >conversation. Sadly enough, even the … um … less attractive chicks >hit me with this routine. So much for the importance of personality…

Rarely have I been given any "I want you to come talk to me" signs from women, very attractive, average, or otherwise. If this is something they really want – if there *have* been plenty of women who WANTED me to come up and introduce myself, then they suck major ass at giving signs. Has to be said.

Response:

grigoru…@yahoo.com (robertmaasjr) wrote in message

<news:33338fd6.0306122314.3f6ac57c@posting.google.com>… > I felt like I had a disease or something because I was so far > behind everyone in growth. It really reduced my confidence. > I’ve seen studies that say that kids who have growth spurts > late don’t recover lost confidence. Being short gives a person > a certain psychology.

That certainly makes sense. My situation tends to support a kind of converse to this, since I never really noticed my height very much until my early to mid 20’s. Even though I was 5′6", being about that height in middle school apparently gave me the mindset that I wasn’t short for years afterwards. Plus, it never seemed to be an issue with guy friends, and as I was getting absolutely zero interest from girls, my height hardly entered my consciousness. The turning point for me regarding height (my confidence in dealing with girls was pretty much zero long before this, but I had always attributed it to things besides my height) was around 1983 or 1984, when I began going to disco clubs and responding to singles ads. It was obvious to me that height was a major factor for girls not rejecting guys in the clubs, while a girl’s height was virtually a non-issue for guys selecting girls (in the latter case it was more a matter of how attractive she was, how thin she was, how little she wore, etc.). It wasn’t just a matter of seeing who was with whom or who had to ask a lot of girls to dance before getting a "yes". It was also a matter of noticing which type of guys the girls tended to look at when some guys walked past some girls. The tall guys often caused heads to turn, while the really short guys almost never effected this reaction. Height issues were also obvious in singles ads. I couldn’t help but notice that virtually all of the female ads (what few there were back then; there were almost always two to three times as many ads by males as there were ads by females) placed height and age restrictions. The height restrictions were sometimes phrased as "tall", "above average height", etc. The age restrictions were another beef with me, because around the mid 1980’s it seemed that every woman’s magazine was printing monthly articles about how guys were ignoring women their age and seeking out younger women, and yet when I looked at the personal ads, just about every woman would list her age as ‘x’ and then say that they were looking for a guy age ‘x’ to ‘x+10′ (or something very similar to this). Since I was always less than age ‘x-3′ or so, I basically found myself writing to any woman who wasn’t more than 4 or 5 years older than me, hoping that she’d relax her age requirement. Ads by women under 30 at this time were extremely rare, and so when I was in my mid to upper 20’s I pretty much responded to every ad by a woman in her early 30’s, unless I was more than several inches under her height restriction. Even these were a bit rare (ads by women in their early 30’s), so it’s not like I was writing to someone every week. For some more about my experiences with personal ads, see <http://tinyurl.com/e88w>. Virgo Cluster   "[9 Historical Figures who Died during Sexual Intercourse] (#2)    Pope Leo VII (936-939) died of a heart attack during sex." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 20 >>

Response:

animeg3…@aol.compelsia (Animeg3282) wrote in news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com: > I’m anxious and depression prone.

There is a very slight chance that I might have a form of mad cow disease. Also, I sometimes get these compulsions to hit people. I will just be talking to someone, whether a boss, an aquantance, or even a random stranger and something tries to make me ball up my fist and smack them in the mouth. Sometimes I will look at a pile of dirt I just swept up and want to eat it. It is weird. I told my shrink and she said they are called compulsive thoughts and not to worry about them. Or at least don’t worry unless I actually act on them but if I do, that I should call her. I have a few other "quirks" but these are by far the wackiest. -phy

Response:

> David Bowie has eyes like you have. > Tell those idiot chicks.

Do I? I think not. It’d be a waste of time. A few years ago I came across a fairly detailed psychology textbook on body language, so I do know what I’m dealing with when a chick shows interest. And when a complete stranger goes from fig.10 "Hello gorgeous!" to fig.15 "Oh no, what a freak", in the half-second or so when she first makes eye-contact at close range, I know better than to try and start a conversation. Sadly enough, even the … um … less attractive chicks hit me with this routine. So much for the importance of personality…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Davide" <noaddr…@tin.it> wrote in message <news:bcajmn$h9b36$10@ID-76430.news.dfncis.de>… > robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > 33338fd6.0306120526.35bf0…@posting.google.com… > > "Davide" <noaddr…@tin.it> wrote in message >  <news:bc920j$gqrgc$4@ID-76430.news.dfncis.de>… > > > robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > > 33338fd6.0306110229.6598f…@posting.google.com… > > > > animeg3…@aol.compelsia (Animeg3282) wrote in message >  <news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com>… > > > > > I’m anxious and depression prone. > > > > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > > > > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > > > > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid . > > > > Bloodyviking in the social phobia group can’t remember human faces. > > > Is bloody viking still around ? Where ? > > Sorry, I misspoke. I have not seen any sign of bloody viking for a long >  time. > > Dimitry, grachman, liz, thunder88 are still around a little bit. > Grachman was a smart dude. > Thunder has a website but last time I chiecked wasn’t so active. > Dmitry said me once I am not manly. Go figure. > Liz, well, she accused me of pedophilia and of posting in alt.sex.reptiles > LOL

thunder is the moderator at socialanxietysupport on ezboards. Very active. Liz posts there too. She has a girlfriend but she still has not completely come out of the closet. Grachman posts once in a while in alt social phobia. Dimitry was stalking me for a couple of years with a pic of me in his yahoo id.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0306120650.551e7da7@posting.google.com>… > grigoru…@yahoo.com (robertmaasjr) wrote in message > <news:33338fd6.0306110229.6598f880@posting.google.com>… > > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid . > I was shorter than average from about age 0 to 12, average to above > average height around age 12 to 15 (middle school, when girls were > often taller than guys), and then I didn’t really grow much, if any, > from age 16 onward. Being taller when I was in middle school > might have something to do with why I never really had any > problems with being short (I’m 5′6") until I was in my early > 20’s. Around that time I began to notice the importance that > height plays in most girls assessment of a guy’s attractiveness. > Before then I attributed the fact that I’d never met a girl who > I knew was the least bit interested in me romantically to being > overweight (which I took care of when I left home for college), > to my interest and ability in math (keep in mind that I’m talking > about 25 years ago, before PC computers, before the internet, and > before the present avalanche of girls going to college and the > drastic increase in the number of girls majoring in math, back > when the environment for a nerd was quite a bit more hostile than > it is now), to my red hair (see <http://tinyurl.com/e4lo>), and to > not having much money (see <http://tinyurl.com/e4lt>). > As I went through my middle 20’s still never having met a girl > who I knew had any interest in me (note that this statement is > not restricted to "girls I was attracted to" or "girls that I > asked out or otherwise expressed an interest in"), I began to > notice more and more the importance that height plays. This > became especially apparent to me when I began going to disco type > places and noticed that the average height of the guys who I’d > never see hooking up with a girl for dancing or to sit at a table > with was much, much less than the average height of the guys who > hooked up from time to time. In fact, anytime I saw a really short > guy (say 5′4" or less), it was almost a sure bet that I wouldn’t > see him hook up with a girl the entire evening. (Since I never > hooked up with a girl either, see <http://tinyurl.com/czgj>, it > was easy for me to notice these things.) > Looking a lot younger than I am also played a role, but although > I was well aware of it’s negative effect on a guy’s attractiveness > even when I was an undergraduate, I don’t think bothered me very > much at that time. For instance, even if you look 17 when you’re > 22, the fact that you’re on a college campus would suggest to an > average person that you’re out of high school. It has some effect, > because not many girls in their 3′rd or 4′th year of college would > consider dating a guy just out of high school (and of course guys at > this age are nowhere near this picky with age, but it does seem that > guys get rather picky with age after 40 or so, which in my warped > mind seems like one of those "what goes around, comes around" things), > but when you continue to look 17 or 18 well into your upper 20’s, > it starts to become a major issue. > I posted about this once in alt.support.short and got two or three > interesting replies that I probably should have responded to but > never got around to. Here’s the most interesting one to me, in case > mangano718 is still around (hummm…his latest google-archived post > is dated June 2, so maybe he’ll see this) and/or to encourage > anyone else who has gone though something like this to share their > experiences —> > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=3b9498222375a332 > ** Virgo Cluster (message #10; 2002-10-10) ** > > Hey, it looks like I just barely qualify — I’m 5′6". As for > > looking younger, how about looking 17 or 18 all throughout your > > 20’s and even up until age 31 or 32? I’ve always told people that > > guys who talk about looking younger as if it was a good thing are > > only kidding themselves if they really think they look younger. > ** mangano718 (message #12; 2002-10-10) ** > > I was wondering Ken, If you ever were in that situation.  You know, > > I’ve seen alot of men who look ‘young’ at 60 or 65.  Women like > > them. They usually have WAVY hair-even if it’s white or gray. > > They can attract women of 50 or 55 years old.  One thing you > > should realize is: There’s a difference between looking ‘young’ > > and being treated as a boy.  Tell me, when you were 30 or 35, > > did people think you were 17?  I don’t mean to put you on the > > ‘hot seat’ and if you ask me questions I’ll be more than willing > > to answer-much more willing than you and some others seem to be > > with all your vast years of experience, but  I’m trying to expose > > a perpetual prejudice here. You see Ken I am determined to > > eliminate this viewing of short men as inferior.  I see it > > everywhere I go.  It is in existence EVERYWHERE on earth.  Short > > women do not experience anywhere near what short men experience. > > I’ve learned this.  So my concern is more with short males than > > females.  If a short girl or woman is wronged then I will be > > offended.  But I have not seen many who will come forward to > > speak of this.  Most are short men.  This newsgroup and the > > e-mails I’ve received indicate just that.  But talk to me about > > the above questions. > Incidentally, I suspect my post and the follow-up replies led to > this thread which begin on 2002-10-14 —> > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b1e94b837933d472 > Anyone interested in issues relating being treated like you’re > a teenager when you’re in your mid to upper 20’s will find many > of the posts in this thread particularly interesting. Probably > some of you alt.support.shyness guys might like a few of these > posts as well, hehe –> [from post #2] << Women roll their eyes > and look at you with a mixture of disgust and contempt, and > sometimes openly glare at you as if to say " Stay away from me > you disgusting little useless piece of shit, I am a queen and > would be defiled if you even spoke to me". >> I guess while I’m > at it, here’s another neat quote —> [from post #8] << One time > when I went into the grocery store to buy liquor, this older > cashier looked at my ID and said very snidely, "You look like > you’re twelve." I replied, "You look like you have one foot in > the grave, so what is your point?." Ahh…that felt good. >> > Of course this problem tends to fade with age (heck, even I seem > to be getting some attention from girls now, although they tend > to be 16-22 and I’m 44, lol —> <http://tinyurl.com/e58p>), but > like being an abused child can affect you the rest of your life, > I’m sure I’ll never get completely over the seemingly unending > non-verbal behavior directed my way by women during my 20’s. > Virgo Cluster >   "[10 Aphrodisiacs] (#8) Pigeon dung and snail excrement >    (medieval England)." > << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless >    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 22 >>

I felt like I had a disease or something because I was so far behind everyone in growth. It really reduced my confidence. I’ve seen studies that say that kids who have growth spurts late don’t recover lost confidence. Being short gives a person a certain psychology.

Response:

robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

33338fd6.0306120526.35bf0…@posting.google.com… > "Davide" <noaddr…@tin.it> wrote in message

<news:bc920j$gqrgc$4@ID-76430.news.dfncis.de>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > 33338fd6.0306110229.6598f…@posting.google.com… > > > animeg3…@aol.compelsia (Animeg3282) wrote in message > >  <news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com>… > > > > I’m anxious and depression prone. > > > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > > > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > > > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid . > > > Bloodyviking in the social phobia group can’t remember human faces. > > Is bloody viking still around ? Where ? > Sorry, I misspoke. I have not seen any sign of bloody viking for a long time. > Dimitry, grachman, liz, thunder88 are still around a little bit.

Grachman was a smart dude. Thunder has a website but last time I chiecked wasn’t so active. Dmitry said me once I am not manly. Go figure. Liz, well, she accused me of pedophilia and of posting in alt.sex.reptiles LOL

Response:

"Animeg3282" <animeg3…@aol.compelsia> wrote in message

news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com… > I’m anxious and depression prone.

Those are mental illness’ not diseases…. ( and before anyone pounces on me and tells me that anxiety is normal and not a mental illness then I am talking about social phobia and other anxiety related disorders ) Ed

Response:

"Davide" <noaddr…@tin.it> wrote in message <news:bc920j$gqrgc$4@ID-76430.news.dfncis.de>… > robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > 33338fd6.0306110229.6598f…@posting.google.com… > > animeg3…@aol.compelsia (Animeg3282) wrote in message >  <news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com>… > > > I’m anxious and depression prone. > > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid . > > Bloodyviking in the social phobia group can’t remember human faces. > Is bloody viking still around ? Where ?

Sorry, I misspoke. I have not seen any sign of bloody viking for a long time. Dimitry, grachman, liz, thunder88 are still around a little bit.

Response:

grigoru…@yahoo.com (robertmaasjr) wrote in message

<news:33338fd6.0306110229.6598f880@posting.google.com>… > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid .

I was shorter than average from about age 0 to 12, average to above average height around age 12 to 15 (middle school, when girls were often taller than guys), and then I didn’t really grow much, if any, from age 16 onward. Being taller when I was in middle school might have something to do with why I never really had any problems with being short (I’m 5′6") until I was in my early 20’s. Around that time I began to notice the importance that height plays in most girls assessment of a guy’s attractiveness. Before then I attributed the fact that I’d never met a girl who I knew was the least bit interested in me romantically to being overweight (which I took care of when I left home for college), to my interest and ability in math (keep in mind that I’m talking about 25 years ago, before PC computers, before the internet, and before the present avalanche of girls going to college and the drastic increase in the number of girls majoring in math, back when the environment for a nerd was quite a bit more hostile than it is now), to my red hair (see <http://tinyurl.com/e4lo>), and to not having much money (see <http://tinyurl.com/e4lt>). As I went through my middle 20’s still never having met a girl who I knew had any interest in me (note that this statement is not restricted to "girls I was attracted to" or "girls that I asked out or otherwise expressed an interest in"), I began to notice more and more the importance that height plays. This became especially apparent to me when I began going to disco type places and noticed that the average height of the guys who I’d never see hooking up with a girl for dancing or to sit at a table with was much, much less than the average height of the guys who hooked up from time to time. In fact, anytime I saw a really short guy (say 5′4" or less), it was almost a sure bet that I wouldn’t see him hook up with a girl the entire evening. (Since I never hooked up with a girl either, see <http://tinyurl.com/czgj>, it was easy for me to notice these things.) Looking a lot younger than I am also played a role, but although I was well aware of it’s negative effect on a guy’s attractiveness even when I was an undergraduate, I don’t think bothered me very much at that time. For instance, even if you look 17 when you’re 22, the fact that you’re on a college campus would suggest to an average person that you’re out of high school. It has some effect, because not many girls in their 3′rd or 4′th year of college would consider dating a guy just out of high school (and of course guys at this age are nowhere near this picky with age, but it does seem that guys get rather picky with age after 40 or so, which in my warped mind seems like one of those "what goes around, comes around" things), but when you continue to look 17 or 18 well into your upper 20’s, it starts to become a major issue. I posted about this once in alt.support.short and got two or three interesting replies that I probably should have responded to but never got around to. Here’s the most interesting one to me, in case mangano718 is still around (hummm…his latest google-archived post is dated June 2, so maybe he’ll see this) and/or to encourage anyone else who has gone though something like this to share their experiences —> http://groups.google.com/groups?th=3b9498222375a332 ** Virgo Cluster (message #10; 2002-10-10) ** > Hey, it looks like I just barely qualify — I’m 5′6". As for > looking younger, how about looking 17 or 18 all throughout your > 20’s and even up until age 31 or 32? I’ve always told people that > guys who talk about looking younger as if it was a good thing are > only kidding themselves if they really think they look younger.

** mangano718 (message #12; 2002-10-10) ** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was wondering Ken, If you ever were in that situation.  You know, > I’ve seen alot of men who look ‘young’ at 60 or 65.  Women like > them. They usually have WAVY hair-even if it’s white or gray. > They can attract women of 50 or 55 years old.  One thing you > should realize is: There’s a difference between looking ‘young’ > and being treated as a boy.  Tell me, when you were 30 or 35, > did people think you were 17?  I don’t mean to put you on the > ‘hot seat’ and if you ask me questions I’ll be more than willing > to answer-much more willing than you and some others seem to be > with all your vast years of experience, but  I’m trying to expose > a perpetual prejudice here. You see Ken I am determined to > eliminate this viewing of short men as inferior.  I see it > everywhere I go.  It is in existence EVERYWHERE on earth.  Short > women do not experience anywhere near what short men experience. > I’ve learned this.  So my concern is more with short males than > females.  If a short girl or woman is wronged then I will be > offended.  But I have not seen many who will come forward to > speak of this.  Most are short men.  This newsgroup and the > e-mails I’ve received indicate just that.  But talk to me about > the above questions.

Incidentally, I suspect my post and the follow-up replies led to this thread which begin on 2002-10-14 —> http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b1e94b837933d472 Anyone interested in issues relating being treated like you’re a teenager when you’re in your mid to upper 20’s will find many of the posts in this thread particularly interesting. Probably some of you alt.support.shyness guys might like a few of these posts as well, hehe –> [from post #2] << Women roll their eyes and look at you with a mixture of disgust and contempt, and sometimes openly glare at you as if to say " Stay away from me you disgusting little useless piece of shit, I am a queen and would be defiled if you even spoke to me". >> I guess while I’m at it, here’s another neat quote —> [from post #8] << One time when I went into the grocery store to buy liquor, this older cashier looked at my ID and said very snidely, "You look like you’re twelve." I replied, "You look like you have one foot in the grave, so what is your point?." Ahh…that felt good. >> Of course this problem tends to fade with age (heck, even I seem to be getting some attention from girls now, although they tend to be 16-22 and I’m 44, lol —> <http://tinyurl.com/e58p>), but like being an abused child can affect you the rest of your life, I’m sure I’ll never get completely over the seemingly unending non-verbal behavior directed my way by women during my 20’s. Virgo Cluster   "[10 Aphrodisiacs] (#8) Pigeon dung and snail excrement    (medieval England)." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 22 >>

Response:

Animeg3282 <animeg3…@aol.compelsia> wrote in message

20030610224610.13678.00000…@mb-m25.aol.com… > I’m anxious and depression prone.

Beside anxiety and dep, I am slightly daltonic (only some color on some backgrounds). Anything at all. I was slightly squint (had surgery many years ago).

Response:

paneon <sparse_pan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

e3e6f91d.0306102300.6ef93…@posting.google.com… > "Animeg3282" <animeg3…@aol.compelsia> wrote in message

news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I’m anxious and depression prone. > Well, when I was 15, I had to have two eye teeth cut out of my nose > after they started to form cysts(the baby teeth were in the right > place, the adults just got a teensy bit lost), I have mismatched eyes > (right green, left brown), and according to my cardiologist, "the > heart of eighty-year-old." At 20, I’m only person in the waiting who > isn’t a) grotesquely overweight or b) at least middle-aged… > Moral of the story? "Smoking hurts your unborn baby!" Seriously. The > rest of my family is relatively normal. I just lucked out in the freak > sweepstakes. > I don’t even want to start on the mental side of the things. Years of > chicks hitting me with the "Oh, you’re kind of cute…. but your eyes > are like, so creepy!" routine have not… been… nice…

David Bowie has eyes like you have. Tell those idiot chicks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Oh well, enough whinging. It’s swatvac, and I should be studying, not > procrastinating on USENET…

Response:

robertmaasjr <grigoru…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

33338fd6.0306110229.6598f…@posting.google.com… > animeg3…@aol.compelsia (Animeg3282) wrote in message

<news:20030610224610.13678.00000396@mb-m25.aol.com>… > > I’m anxious and depression prone. > I was a late bloomer in school. I’m 5 10 now but i was always very > short through grade school. People always thought i belong about 3 > grades below. It was like being the fattest kid . > Bloodyviking in the social phobia group can’t remember human faces.

Is bloody viking still around ? Where ?

Response:

"Davide" <noaddr…@tin.it> a

Question..

Question:

so far its been great…. the guy taped some seeds to my ear lobes, so i pressed on them 5 times a day and the tics seem to move away from the face… really amazing…  but sometimes its about finding a good accupuncutist…

Response:

Hi i have a mild case of tourettes syndrome and wanted to know if anyone here has lived to see this dissapear? if so what were the symptoms of the tics at the time they were about to dissapear? My tics are behaving differently since i started doing accupuncture, i never get vocal, the tics stay in the eye or pulse around my face when im stressed. When im fully relaxed the tics just "pulse" around my muscles causing slight involuntary twitches which are nothing at all(somtimes my muscles contract by themselves)… Is this a sign of good things to come? thank you

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: "Sleek" pka…@iinet.net.au >Hi i have a mild case of tourettes syndrome and wanted to know if anyone >here has lived to see this dissapear? >if so what were the symptoms of the tics at the time they were about to >dissapear? >My tics are behaving differently since i started doing accupuncture, i never >get vocal, the tics stay in the eye or pulse around my face when im >stressed. When im fully relaxed the tics just "pulse" around my muscles >causing slight involuntary twitches which are nothing at all(somtimes my >muscles contract by themselves)… >Is this a sign of good things to come? >thank you

I have been wanting my son to try acupuncture, but he is being stubborn about not wanting to try it. Keep us informed about the outcome, OK? Jan

Response:

Be thankful for anxiety…

Question:

What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone much worse off than us. I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the bill. I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the grocery line and write a check for my order. I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot hear. I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench trying to survice the cold of the night. I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted river. When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the hour. Home delievered even. Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to death. I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that someone will arrest us for doing so. Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to chemo,radiation or dialysis… Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to be angry. Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can come here and post and hear a kind word of support. Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone understands and cares. So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many friends here and around the world. The support cannot be measured in numbers. It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. All thanks to my anxiety. Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… love, Julie from NY

Response:

Wonderful thoughts, Julie. Thank you for this. xxoo Anne

Response:

– …

: What did I just write??? : : What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone : imagine this… : : : : As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, : and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone : much worse off than us. : : I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow : in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the : bill. : : I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and : clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. : : We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or : returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the : grocery line and write a check for my order. : : I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my : ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot : hear. : : I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my : government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have : to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for : the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. : : Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and : turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. : : I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench : trying to survice the cold of the night. : : I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, : and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to : drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted : river. : : When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the : hour. Home delievered even. : : Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to : death. : : I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking : my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many : crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that : someone will arrest us for doing so. : : Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard : even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to : chemo,radiation or dialysis… : : Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our : anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, : we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to : be angry. : : Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time : with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and : friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. : : We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can : come here and post and hear a kind word of support. : : Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone : understands and cares. : : So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many : friends here and around the world. : : The support cannot be measured in numbers. : : It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. : : All thanks to my anxiety. : : Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… I ate a handful of mini Snickers while reading this…….  ;-) Thanks to my anxiety I met people that I adore have learned that life isn’t fair and to be thankful for what grace has been bestowed upon me…..took a long time to get to that point but once I got there I could handle the ugly things better……there is always someone/something worse…..that isn’t easy to say or think but it’s true. I witnessed the other side of organ donation last weekend and it put things in perspective…..the woman was very young with a husband and twelve year old, she died on Sunday….. the family decided that they did not want to donate after a long 24 hours of thinking about it, which was hard to face but my thoughts are nothing compared to the suffering of the family this Christmas, and forever…… Thank you for this thought provoking post. Cheryl : : love, Julie from NY

Response:

This shows a great positive attitude.  I agree! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone much worse off than us. I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the bill. I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the grocery line and write a check for my order. I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot hear. I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench trying to survice the cold of the night. I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted river. When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the hour. Home delievered even. Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to death. I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that someone will arrest us for doing so. Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to chemo,radiation or dialysis… Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to be angry. Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can come here and post and hear a kind word of support. Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone understands and cares. So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many friends here and around the world. The support cannot be measured in numbers. It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. All thanks to my anxiety. Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… love, Julie from NY

Response:

What great thoughts! Sometimes we all get wrapped up and forget to just stop and be thankful for the everyday things.  I will have a better day tomorrow with those thoughts on my mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mike<

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… Maybe someone with Tourettes Syndrome.;-) P.

Philip, don’t fret over this. Like I said, there are people that are worse off than us…

Response:

What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… Maybe someone with Tourettes Syndrome.;-)

P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Very true words Julima.  Makes me put things into perspective alot more. Imogen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone much worse off than us. I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the bill. I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the grocery line and write a check for my order. I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot hear. I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench trying to survice the cold of the night. I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted river. When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the hour. Home delievered even. Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to death. I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that someone will arrest us for doing so. Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to chemo,radiation or dialysis… Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to be angry. Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can come here and post and hear a kind word of support. Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone understands and cares. So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many friends here and around the world. The support cannot be measured in numbers. It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. All thanks to my anxiety. Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… love, Julie from NY

Response:

Hi, Julie, Very inspiring! Now SHARE the Oreos and M&M’s, please… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone much worse off than us. I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the bill. I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the grocery line and write a check for my order. I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot hear. I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench trying to survice the cold of the night. I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted river. When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the hour. Home delievered even. Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to death. I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that someone will arrest us for doing so. Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to chemo,radiation or dialysis… Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to be angry. Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can come here and post and hear a kind word of support. Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone understands and cares. So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many friends here and around the world. The support cannot be measured in numbers. It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. All thanks to my anxiety. Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… love, Julie from NY

Response:

Dear Julie, I needed this post today.  Thank you so much!! Vicki

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What did I just write??? What is wrong with me? Be thankful for anxiety????? How could anyone imagine this… As hard as it is for us to go through mental anquish and disorders, and as bad as we are sometimes, I always know that there is someone much worse off than us. I have a roof over my head. It doesn’t leak. The cold air doesn’t blow in. We get cold, we turn on the heat because we have money to pay the bill. I can drive my kids to school. We have a car. The kids are fed and clothed and we have insurance for doctors and dentists. We are not starving and rummaging through garbage cans for scraps or returning bags of recycled soda cans for money. I can stand in the grocery line and write a check for my order. I can watch TV because my eyes are good, and I can enjoy music with my ears. Some people don’t even have a radio to enjoy. Some people cannot hear. I have an airforce base in my back yard and I understand that my government will protect me from harm as best as they can. I don’t have to hide in bomb shelters every night or put on gas masks waiting for the next scud missle to pour lethal gas into the air. Even though I can’t get a good nite’s sleep, I am still tossing and turning in a warm bed with a soft pillow and blanket. I know there are homeless laying on the cold cement or park bench trying to survice the cold of the night. I have the pleasure of running HOT water to take a shower when I want, and I can throw my laundry in the washer in my cellar and not have to drag it to the laundromat or worse, beat it upon rocks near a polluted river. When my kids are sick I can call the ped and get medicine within the hour. Home delievered even. Some kids never recieve medicine and die from diptheria, or starve to death. I don’t have to worry about the police busting in my door and taking my family away because we worship our GOd. We can put up as many crosses and lights as we want and we do without worry of fear that someone will arrest us for doing so. Having to go to therapy or picking up that Ativan script isn’t as hard even though I complain about driving. Some people have to drive to chemo,radiation or dialysis… Yep, I think most of us have it pretty good WITH our anxiety, but our anxiety robs us of the pleasure to be thankful for our lives and yes, we have a right to complain, and a right to be scared, and a right to be angry. Since the holiday season is upon us, many of us will spend more time with family and friends. I truly believe that support from family and friends is vital in maintaining our sense of worth. We may be jolted from time to time with anxiety attacks, but we can come here and post and hear a kind word of support. Sometimes that is the greatest treatment-to know that someone understands and cares. So I will be thankful for my anxiety. Through it I have made many friends here and around the world. The support cannot be measured in numbers. It is truly a precious gift that I am thankful for and appreciate. All thanks to my anxiety. Now off to eat those damn Oreos and M&M’s… love, Julie from NY

Response:

Nervous Tic

Question:

I notice a tic when I have my glasses on and am reading.  It can be distracting but I guess I have just learned to overlook it. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone here ever developed a nervous tic from stress and or anxiety? My brother, who is a self destructive jerk, told me this week that he noticed me *ticing* in the car. I sort of felt it myself but always thought it was the leather seats and that I always sort of had to adjust myself because I slide around on the leather. Of course, now I am obsessed with watching such tics.

Response:

I know people who twitch and have facial tics and do not have anxiety problems. Nobody ever questions it. I am currently conscious of tics when I go out, and yet no-one ever raises it with me, mainly because they care far less about it that I do. I guess it’s nothing to worry about. Martin PS I have found that I REALLY twitch when going to sleep though! My girlfriend told me about it- I basically become like a dreaming dog when I go to sleep, and start twitching my legs. It is actually really funny, and I find it most curious. I can feel it when I’m on the edge of sleep but think nothing of it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone here ever developed a nervous tic from stress and or anxiety? My brother, who is a self destructive jerk, told me this week that he noticed me *ticing* in the car. I sort of felt it myself but always thought it was the leather seats and that I always sort of had to adjust myself because I slide around on the leather. Of course, now I am obsessed with watching such tics. My head can sometimes "tic", but had it checked out, and it is nothing serious.  I have watched myself on family video tapes and have never seen it yet.  Ralph says it seems to happen when I am really stressed or pissed.  Ususally I find my jaw is clenched and if I lay on that side, I can feel a tic in my jaw that works steadily sometimes.  Still, I am able to relax it and with concentration, can make it stop…so it is just a habit.  If this frightens you, get it checked out to be sure it is nothing but tension.  Massage is wonderful for this type of condition, as is meditation. Take care, Liz

Response:

Nervous tics can be a symptom of anxiety.

ever watch Dr. Phil? stay focused on him when he gets pushed-he twitches…. we tighten our muscles beyond their tolerance to tension and they rebel by twitching-gross body tics can be an imbalance of some neurotransmitters like in tourettes syndrome, these kind of larger twitches need to be looked at by a doc-the small ones are usually anxiety or habit LM

Response:

Has anyone here ever developed a nervous tic from stress and or anxiety? My brother, who is a self destructive jerk, told me this week that he noticed me *ticing* in the car. I sort of felt it myself but always thought it was the leather seats and that I always sort of had to adjust myself because I slide around on the leather. Of course, now I am obsessed with watching such tics.

Nervous tics can be a symptom of anxiety. If you are at all concerned mention it to your doctor. Try not to focus on this tic, the more you obsess, the more likely it will continue. Be nice to your bother Jackie

Response:

Has anyone here ever developed a nervous tic from stress and or anxiety? My brother, who is a self destructive jerk, told me this week that he noticed me *ticing* in the car. I sort of felt it myself but always thought it was the leather seats and that I always sort of had to adjust myself because I slide around on the leather. Of course, now I am obsessed with watching such tics.

My head can sometimes "tic", but had it checked out, and it is nothing serious.  I have watched myself on family video tapes and have never seen it yet.  Ralph says it seems to happen when I am really stressed or pissed.  Ususally I find my jaw is clenched and if I lay on that side, I can feel a tic in my jaw that works steadily sometimes.  Still, I am able to relax it and with concentration, can make it stop…so it is just a habit.  If this frightens you, get it checked out to be sure it is nothing but tension.  Massage is wonderful for this type of condition, as is meditation. Take care, Liz

Response:

Has anyone here ever developed a nervous tic from stress and or anxiety? My brother, who is a self destructive jerk, told me this week that he noticed me *ticing* in the car. I sort of felt it myself but always thought it was the leather seats and that I always sort of had to adjust myself because I slide around on the leather. Of course, now I am obsessed with watching such tics.

Response:

ADD and marriage problems

Question:

here’s an interesting list for summer reading….. http://www.emdrhelp.com/books.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-archive:yes’ IMHO—going to a therapist who is unfamiliar with ADD is like going to a dentist for a heart condition. my friend went to a ‘generalists’ for years…his marriage broke up, he got nowhere.  he found a specialist, and the difference was amazing.  one of the determining success factors with *any* doctor is the amount of experience and/or education they have with that particular condition. it doesn’t guarantee success, but it sure increases the odds. IMHO again, the mate needs to see his/her own therapist also. …been there… ps. ever heard of the Peter Pan Syndrome? Thanks to all.  He doesn’t rage, just is angry with me for ‘controlling his life’ (ie-my take… getting done what needs to be done and wanting help). He explains that he feels that I have held him back from being ‘an adult’. I have wanted more than anything for him to take some control, share in the work and decisions, but when he agrees to contribute, it feels like a ‘test’, that he cant come out looking good no matter what.  I try only to be helpful and supportive and patient, but he gets so frustrated when he cant tackle a problem easily, and I get blamed for asking in the first place. It just always feels like a no win situation. In terms of his looking for other relationships, he explains it as asserting his independence from me…that ‘adult’ thing again.  I feel like I am the ‘known’ and the unknowns out there are far more interesting and stimulating to him.  Makes me feel like an outsider, and if I complain and ask for attention, he feels like I am trying to control him…and on and on.  He is going to counseling, but unfortunately with someone unfamiliar with ADD.  He has tourettes and wants to avoid any meds which might make tics worse, or interfere with creativity etc.  I love him, want to support his (and my own) ability to manage the ADD and come to a place where we can accept each other and work together. It is a long road. Thanks again, JJ My marriage has gone down the tubes.  I am getting over my anger as I learn more about ADD (I am the non-ADD spouse), but for years I have felt invisibe.  My spouse has always been distracted by the possibliity of other realtionships, unsure how they feel about me, very defensive, disorganized, Well I have severe ADHD and I was never unsure about how I felt about my partner nor was I every distracted by the possiblioty of other relationships that would threaten my marriage.   I don’t buy that as a trait of ADHD. To me that is a moral issue. However being disorganized is definately ADHD and Defensiveness would probably  be a by-product if somone was frustrated and angry with themselves and did not have a full understanding of their ADHD and the limitations it can place on their everyday living.A angry, at times depressed, not accountable for things they have agreed to do, I could go on and on.  Communication is a mine-field with defensiveness as the first line of response to suggestions for improvement and peace. I am so exhausted.  My question is this; has anyone in this group who has ADD been able to improve their focus and attentiveness to the people in their lives without meds? My spouse refuses to consider them or talk to a doctor about options.  I support this, but need to know if there is hope for improvement. thanks! JJ Is your spouse doing anything to deal with the ADD?  I think that if a person responds well to meds that they are most useful.  But behavior and cognitive therapy is also critical.  It can take time for a person to accept their life with ADHD whether treated or not. Nessa — I don’t have issues I have subscriptions www.nessa.info

Response:

He will have his same base personality and for te first time in his life he will have the ability to do the things he wants to do and be the person he wants to be.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=94tiba%2461a%241%40nntp9.atl.min…

Response:

My marriage has gone down the tubes.  I am getting over my anger as I learn more about ADD (I am the non-ADD spouse), but for years I have felt invisibe.  My spouse has always been distracted by the possibliity of other realtionships, unsure how they feel about me, very defensive, disorganized,

Well I have severe ADHD and I was never unsure about how I felt about my partner nor was I every distracted by the possiblioty of other relationships that would threaten my marriage.   I don’t buy that as a trait of ADHD.  To me that is a moral issue. However being disorganized is definately ADHD and Defensiveness would probably  be a by-product if somone was frustrated and angry with themselves and did not have a full understanding of their ADHD and the limitations it can place on their everyday living.A angry, at times depressed, not accountable for things they have agreed to do, I could go on and on.  Communication is a mine-field with defensiveness as the first line of response to suggestions for improvement and peace.  I am so exhausted.  My question is this; has anyone in this group who has ADD been able to improve their focus and attentiveness to the people in their lives without meds? My spouse refuses to consider them or talk to a doctor about options.  I support this, but need to know if there is hope for improvement. thanks! JJ

Is your spouse doing anything to deal with the ADD?  I think that if a person responds well to meds that they are most useful.  But behavior and cognitive therapy is also critical.  It can take time for a person to accept their life with ADHD whether treated or not. Nessa — I don’t have issues I have subscriptions www.nessa.info

Response:

Thanks to all.  He doesn’t rage, just is angry with me for ‘controlling his life’ (ie-my take… getting done what needs to be done and wanting help). He explains that he feels that I have held him back from being ‘an adult’. I have wanted more than anything for him to take some control, share in the work and decisions, but when he agrees to contribute, it feels like a ‘test’, that he cant come out looking good no matter what.  I try only to be helpful and supportive and patient, but he gets so frustrated when he cant tackle a problem easily, and I get blamed for asking in the first place.  It just always feels like a no win situation. In terms of his looking for other relationships, he explains it as asserting his independence from me…that ‘adult’ thing again.  I feel like I am the ‘known’ and the unknowns out there are far more interesting and stimulating to him.  Makes me feel like an outsider, and if I complain and ask for attention, he feels like I am trying to control him…and on and on.  He is going to counseling, but unfortunately with someone unfamiliar with ADD.  He has tourettes and wants to avoid any meds which might make tics worse, or interfere with creativity etc.  I love him, want to support his (and my own) ability to manage the ADD and come to a place where we can accept each other and work together.  It is a long road. Thanks again, JJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My marriage has gone down the tubes.  I am getting over my anger as I learn more about ADD (I am the non-ADD spouse), but for years I have felt invisibe.  My spouse has always been distracted by the possibliity of other realtionships, unsure how they feel about me, very defensive, disorganized, Well I have severe ADHD and I was never unsure about how I felt about my partner nor was I every distracted by the possiblioty of other relationships that would threaten my marriage.   I don’t buy that as a trait of ADHD. To me that is a moral issue. However being disorganized is definately ADHD and Defensiveness would probably  be a by-product if somone was frustrated and angry with themselves and did not have a full understanding of their ADHD and the limitations it can place on their everyday living.A angry, at times depressed, not accountable for things they have agreed to do, I could go on and on.  Communication is a mine-field with defensiveness as the first line of response to suggestions for improvement and peace. I am so exhausted.  My question is this; has anyone in this group who has ADD been able to improve their focus and attentiveness to the people in their lives without meds? My spouse refuses to consider them or talk to a doctor about options.  I support this, but need to know if there is hope for improvement. thanks! JJ Is your spouse doing anything to deal with the ADD?  I think that if a person responds well to meds that they are most useful.  But behavior and cognitive therapy is also critical.  It can take time for a person to accept their life with ADHD whether treated or not. Nessa — I don’t have issues I have subscriptions www.nessa.info

Response:

My marriage has gone down the tubes.  I am getting over my anger as I learn more about ADD (I am the non-ADD spouse), but for years I have felt invisibe.  My spouse has always been distracted by the possibliity of other realtionships, unsure how they feel about me, very defensive, disorganized, angry, at times depressed, not accountable for things they have agreed to do, I could go on and on.  Communication is a mine-field with defensiveness as the first line of response to suggestions for improvement and peace.  I am so exhausted.  My question is this; has anyone in this group who has ADD been able to improve their focus and attentiveness to the people in their lives without meds? My spouse refuses to consider them or talk to a doctor about options.  I support this, but need to know if there is hope for improvement. thanks! JJ

Response:

JJ,      The relationship you have and the behavior you describe sounds like a very serious case of ADD.  Very few serious conditions mental-emotional or physical can be dealt with without some type of intervention.  There are things like anger management etc. but he doesn’t sound like the type who would stay with it.       Unfortunately much of the confusion about Attention Deficite Disorder stems from the name.  There is no deficite it is an Attention Control disorder.  Based on the verious case histories I have seen it is only part of a whole series of disorders: Bi Polar (High-Low Behavior), Impulsiveness, Compulsiveness, Opositional Behavior, Addictiveness, etc. His anger is dangerous for you.      Most drugs used to treat these behaviors are not dangerous (Especially compared with what out of control behavior can cause.) They can be a pain due to side effects such as nausea, headaches, fatigue, diziness.  Most drugs today have been improved and have less side effects.  THEY DO NOT TURN PEOPLE INTO ZOMBIES.  He will have his same base personality and for te first time in his life he will have the ability to do the things he wants to do and be the person he wants to be.  Without them he is likely persist in his uncontrolled behavior.       I am sypathetic to his desire to solve his own problems but severe ADD is not likely to be cured in a do-it-yourself project. In anycase best of luck. Ray

Response:

PIGS, FUCKING PIGS!

Question:

Is there a limit to how many people can be on a killfile list? ~Carol Ann

I don’t think there is. I have lots of ppl on my killfiles lists from all my newsgroups I read. Miss Jaime (Hamilton, Ontario CANADA)

Response:

Is there a limit to how many people can be on a killfile list?

LOL Software always has limits, but it’s not likely you’d reach the limit in your software.  But don’t bother putting spammers in, as they don’t usually use any address for more than a few days, and don’t bother killfiling trolls and idiots unless they’re persistent with the same address. If your killfile list gets very long with addresses that aren’t likely to be reused, you may start to notice much slower loading, as it checks every header against the list (especially so on an older/slower PC). —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Well hello again! Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts! I do believe you previously had some sort of problem with the "F" word – I’m happy to see you’ve overcome it.  One should *never* stop striving to become better in "every way on every day".

It apparently took BeNice two months to get over the shock of seeing those words and learn to use them, as this response was to a post from mid-April.  Maybe she had a training session with Lyle. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Hi Jamie, It apparently took BeNice two months to get over the shock of seeing those words and learn to use them, as this response was to a post from mid-April.  Maybe she had a training session with Lyle.

Lyle would have been a better tutor than *that*!  It would have been more effective with some signs of intelligent life thrown in – perhaps one or two of the hormones responsible, with a few target organs or source glands thrown in for good measure.  As it was it just came across as rampant PMS… — Take care, Carmen "The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F’s": -fighting; -fleeing; -feeding -mating. –Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

Response:

Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts! http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

Thanks for the laugh!!! Definately bookmarked! — Geannie "To the living we owe respect, To the dead we owe only truth."                 ~Voltaire

Response:

RUDE, IGNORANT, ASS WIPES, FAT SWEATY CUNTS, DESPICABLE! FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL DEAD WRONG – 40 YEAR OLD TIRED OF BEING TREATED LIKE S H I T BY ALL YOU FUCKING WHORES OUT THERE WHO THINK YOU RUN THE GOD DAMN BB’S ON THE NET. HAVE THAT BABY YET DESRIEE?  POOR SON OF B I T CH !!!!!  LITERALLY, YOUR ARE THE BIGGEST FUCKING CUNT LICKING BITCH IN THE WORLD. MY EYES DON’T ROLL AT THE F WORD ANYMORE – YOU LIKE IT NINA??????? YOU FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK! THAT MORE YOUR STYLE BUTCH??????  NOW I’M JUST LIKE YOU FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jamie, It apparently took BeNice two months to get over the shock of seeing those words and learn to use them, as this response was to a post from mid-April.  Maybe she had a training session with Lyle. Lyle would have been a better tutor than *that*!  It would have been more effective with some signs of intelligent life thrown in – perhaps one or two of the hormones responsible, with a few target organs or source glands thrown in for good measure.  As it was it just came across as rampant PMS… — Take care, Carmen "The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F’s": -fighting; -fleeing; -feeding -mating. –Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

Response:

DEAD WRONG JENNY!  KEEP UP THAT EDUCATION THOUGH, MAYBE YOU’LL FIGURE IT ALL OUT, THIS TIME CORRECTLY!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! AND BY THE WAY, "FUCK" !!!!!

Response:

I wonder if low-carb is any good for Tourettes syndrome…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RUDE, IGNORANT, ASS WIPES, FAT SWEATY CUNTS, DESPICABLE! FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL, FUCK YOU ALL DEAD WRONG – 40 YEAR OLD TIRED OF BEING TREATED LIKE S H I T BY ALL YOU FUCKING WHORES OUT THERE WHO THINK YOU RUN THE GOD DAMN BB’S ON THE NET. HAVE THAT BABY YET DESRIEE?  POOR SON OF B I T CH !!!!!  LITERALLY, YOUR ARE THE BIGGEST FUCKING CUNT LICKING BITCH IN THE WORLD. MY EYES DON’T ROLL AT THE F WORD ANYMORE – YOU LIKE IT NINA??????? YOU FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK! THAT MORE YOUR STYLE BUTCH??????  NOW I’M JUST LIKE YOU FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jamie, It apparently took BeNice two months to get over the shock of seeing those words and learn to use them, as this response was to a post from mid-April.  Maybe she had a training session with Lyle. Lyle would have been a better tutor than *that*!  It would have been more effective with some signs of intelligent life thrown in – perhaps one or two of the hormones responsible, with a few target organs or source glands thrown in for good measure.  As it was it just came across as rampant PMS… — Take care, Carmen "The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F’s": -fighting; -fleeing; -feeding -mating. –Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

Response:

| http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html Hilarious! Thanks Barry :^) — *Liz* 362/354/200 Diabetic Ha1c 6 on low carb

Response:

DESPICABLE

You got that right. .:. Craig

Response:

Is there a limit to how many people can be on a killfile list? ~Carol Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Love the link! Question — Do the number of flames go up during the summer?  Seriously. We have been out of school here for about three weeks.  That’s about when kids start complaining about being bored.  From the look of this one, I would guess an 8th or 9th grader  – time of day leads me to believe a sleepover with a couple of other kids.   "Hey, look at me.  I can yell cuss words at grown-ups and they can’t do anything." Woo hoo.  Wish I could have that much fun. http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

Response:

Well hello again! Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts!

I do believe you previously had some sort of problem with the "F" word – I’m happy to see you’ve overcome it.  One should *never* stop striving to become better in "every way on every day". — Take care, Carmen "The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they’re going to be when you kill them."         – William Clayton

Response:

Love the link! Question — Do the number of flames go up during the summer?  Seriously.  We have been out of school here for about three weeks.  That’s about when kids start complaining about being bored.  From the look of this one, I would guess an 8th or 9th grader  – time of day leads me to believe a sleepover with a couple of other kids.   "Hey, look at me.  I can yell cuss words at grown-ups and they can’t do anything." Woo hoo.  Wish I could have that much fun. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

Response:

Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts! http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

That is absolutely hilarious…..bookmarked…hehe.

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Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts!

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

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Hormonal???  Better now? Fuckin cunts! Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb View this article only An asshole. How about that. Get it?  Got it?  GOOD. — Desiree

Response:

Insurance for the Uninsurable?

Question:

I work for a SMALL company in North Carolina: 4 full-time employees.  We currently have group medical insurance.  The insurance company we are with now is complaining that we do not have enough employees and they will have to drop our coverage.  And this is after a HUGE increase in premium on our last contract.  I feel like at least part of the problem is due to the coverage on my family.  My family has been with this company insurance for 2 years. 4-1/2 year ago my wife got breast cancer.  Since we have been with this insurance, she has remained cancer-free.  She has had countless routine exams, a couple of minor surgeries to remove small benign lumps and a left-side simple-mastectomy to remove a large "benign" lump.  My son has also been recently diagnosed with Tourettes Syndrome. My questions: Is there an insurance company out there that will give my family individual family medical coverage? Is there an insurance company out there that will give the company I work for group medical coverage? Thanks for any thoughts, Mike

Response:

Depending on your financial circumstances you might look into State Funded assistance.  In my state your son more than likely would qualify.  If your insurance company is doing this it is because of 1 of 2 reasons:  1.  They have changed their "listing" (set of qualifications) with the state and MUST comply with their own protocol.  Or 2.  Your small company just lost an employee and due to CURRENT protocol they again must inforce their own rules.  Don’t take it personally.  *IF* they are discriminating against your company for any other than the above it’s more than likely illegal.  Check with your local state insurance board or website if this is the case.  I hope this helps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I work for a SMALL company in North Carolina: 4 full-time employees.  We currently have group medical insurance.  The insurance company we are with now is complaining that we do not have enough employees and they will have to drop our coverage.  And this is after a HUGE increase in premium on our last contract.  I feel like at least part of the problem is due to the coverage on my family.  My family has been with this company insurance for 2 years. 4-1/2 year ago my wife got breast cancer.  Since we have been with this insurance, she has remained cancer-free.  She has had countless routine exams, a couple of minor surgeries to remove small benign lumps and a left-side simple-mastectomy to remove a large "benign" lump.  My son has also been recently diagnosed with Tourettes Syndrome. My questions: Is there an insurance company out there that will give my family individual family medical coverage? Is there an insurance company out there that will give the company I work for group medical coverage? Thanks for any thoughts, Mike

Response:

My son's tics (tourettes)

Question:

Hi, My name is Lidia. My son is 16 years old.  he got tics about 2 years ago. Everything is new to us because nobody in our family ever experienced such a thing. I read a lot about tics on internet but I would like to talk to someone who has been there or who is there. Everywhere I  read about it they say that this is inherited. How could it be inherited when nobody ever had that in any of our family. Please respond to me at this e-mail address: market…@primerestaurants.com Thank you,

Response:

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:48:23 GMT, "Leokadia" <market…@primerestaurants.com> wrote: >Hi, >My name is Lidia. My son is 16 years old.  he got tics about 2 years ago. >Everything is new to us because >nobody in our family ever experienced such a thing. I read a lot about tics >on internet but I would like to talk >to someone who has been there or who is there. Everywhere I  read about it >they say that this is inherited. >How could it be inherited when nobody ever had that in any of our family. >Please respond to me at this e-mail address: >market…@primerestaurants.com

There is a particular genetic expression that is often implicated with regard to Tourettes, and those researching the genome think there is a correlation between the Tourette symptomatology and a particular combination of gene sequences. i don’t think you comprehend what inheritance really means in terms of genetics and the genome and no, just because the fundamental cause of the problem may be well known, that doesn’t mean there will be any "cure" per se, because there is no significant money to be made from the byproduct of doing research into any cure, and Tourettes is such a minority ailment that there is very little social priority to really explore it.

Response:

Leokadia wrote: > Hi, > My name is Lidia. My son is 16 years old.  he got tics about 2 years ago. > Everything is new to us because > nobody in our family ever experienced such a thing. I read a lot about tics > on internet but I would like to talk > to someone who has been there or who is there. Everywhere I  read about it > they say that this is inherited. > How could it be inherited when nobody ever had that in any of our family. > Please respond to me at this e-mail address: > market…@primerestaurants.com > Thank you,

Hi my name is alex and I have tourettes syndrome. I have had it for 15 years now and i can answer any questions u have. I have had support groups and meetings and speeches to classes about tics and tourettes. Here’s a little info on myself. My name is Alex Muller I live in brampton ON. I am 15 yr. old. I also have O.C.D and A.D.D to answer the question that u rote on the e-mail tourettes syndrome can be so light with a person that no one notices. like their tics can be things like blinking a lot more than usual. you wouldn’t necessarily notice these kind of tics. On the other hand, many people have different tics and don’t have toreros syndrome. I’m guessing this is the case with your son since no one in your family has had anything to do with tics. But please!! don’t take my advise, consult a doctor about something like this. I can help you or your son with any problems about Tourettes, I.e.. how to explain to other people what tourettes is, how to cope with it in your everyday lifestyle, etc.         Like I said, don’t take my word for it, consult your son’s physician

Response:

ocd?

Question:

hi, im 19/m i havent been diagnosed with  OCD though after having browsed some OCD sites and having read posts on this newsgroup i was shocked to see people describe their symptoms which were exactly the same as mine…. i mean i never thought so many other people were going though the same thing.. i felt alone, so thanks guys annnnyway.. i was on SSRI’s on and off for depression, i mean at first a couple of years ago i thought id live it through but it got to the stage where i couldnt take it any more, and when on the SSRI’s and back on track, i realised how much my depression had taken a grip and disabled my life.. anyway wrong newsgroup…. but i got off the SSRI’s, as i got to a stage where everything was on track, for about 6 months everything was fine then i developed extreme anxiety. What i mean by extreme is i was anxious from morning till night, about annoying thoughts. It wasnt until i browsed this news group i found what OCD really was, i thought in the past it related only to obsessing over checking locked doors, washing hands etc…. I will try best to describe the thoughts that invade my mind. I have a beautiful girlfriend, but just say a thought popped into my head ‘ imagine you arent attracted to her anymore ‘, or ‘ imagine i turn gay’, then i would panic, get a hot flash, and become anxious. These thoughts are not what bothers me, its that they dont leave my mind all day!! i begin to think as if the above have happened, and live them out in my head, over and over until they feel real…. ok you could say youre gay, but no i am not attracted to guys and i am very happy with the way things are going.. its as if im always looking at the worst case scenario ( i am a very negative thinker ), it also happens in a lot of other things, i’ll give just one here.. lets say im walking.. i’ll start to think i might trip over, even though i know i wont, and i’ll start obsessing over the way im walking so i dont trip over.. anyway a couple of days ago i got back on the SSRI’s for depression, and *surprise surprise* the day-consuming obsessive thoughts have slowed to a mere trickle, and im feeling a LOT better, thought i dont like the side effects of the SSRI’s, decreased libido, no appetite ( im already skinny ), but hey if its what it takes to keep me well, im not complaining. are there other drugs available without the side effects, and would i be helped by some sort of therapy or something else? thanks for listening -JayKay

Response:

Hi Jay, It’s great to hear that the SSRIs have lessened your symptoms (which do sound like OCD to me). The best treatment for OCD is meds plus therapy. Hope that helps. — Thrasher Jay Kay <j…@mail.iinet.com> wrote in article <39F45D64.C6247…@mail.iinet.com>… | hi, | | im 19/m i havent been diagnosed with  OCD though after having browsed | some OCD sites and having read posts on this newsgroup i was shocked to | see people describe their symptoms which were exactly the same as | mine…. i mean i never thought so many other people were going though | the same thing.. i felt alone, so thanks guys | | annnnyway.. i was on SSRI’s on and off for depression, i mean at first a | couple of years ago i thought id live it through but it got to the stage | where i couldnt take it any more, and when on the SSRI’s and back on | track, i realised how much my depression had taken a grip and disabled | my life.. anyway wrong newsgroup…. but i got off the SSRI’s, as i got | to a stage where everything was on track, for about 6 months everything | was fine then i developed extreme anxiety. What i mean by extreme is i | was anxious from morning till night, about annoying thoughts. It wasnt | until i browsed this news group i found what OCD really was, i thought | in the past it related only to obsessing over checking locked doors, | washing hands etc…. | | I will try best to describe the thoughts that invade my mind. I have a | beautiful girlfriend, but just say a thought popped into my head ‘ | imagine you arent attracted to her anymore ‘, or ‘ imagine i turn gay’, | then i would panic, get a hot flash, and become anxious. These thoughts | are not what bothers me, its that they dont leave my mind all day!! i | begin to think as if the above have happened, and live them out in my | head, over and over until they feel real…. ok you could say youre gay, | but no i am not attracted to guys and i am very happy with the way | things are going.. its as if im always looking at the worst case | scenario ( i am a very negative thinker ), it also happens in a lot of | other things, i’ll give just one here.. lets say im walking.. i’ll start | to think i might trip over, even though i know i wont, and i’ll start | obsessing over the way im walking so i dont trip over.. | | anyway a couple of days ago i got back on the SSRI’s for depression, and | *surprise surprise* the day-consuming obsessive thoughts have slowed to | a mere trickle, and im feeling a LOT better, thought i dont like the | side effects of the SSRI’s, decreased libido, no appetite ( im already | skinny ), but hey if its what it takes to keep me well, im not | complaining. | | are there other drugs available without the side effects, and would i be | helped by some sort of therapy or something else? | | thanks for listening | -JayKay | |

Response:

Jay Kay wrote: > are there other drugs available without the side effects, and would i be > helped by some sort of therapy or something else?

Hi Jay Kay, Have you ever looked into cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)? It can be very effective for people with OCD. Check out: http://www.ocfoundation.org/ocf1030a.htm http://www.cognitivetherapy.com/basics.html http://www.ocdonline.com/definecbt.htm CBT was very, very, very helpful for me. It’s hard work but very rewarding. — monkey .sdrawkcab dootsrednu tub sdrawrof devil si efiL

Response:

Every morning when lying in bed I start thinking about these weird feelings I have in my body. I feel that if I don’t get up and act on these weird feelings in my body something bad might happen. It happens every morning and several times throughout the day!! I just can’t stop thinking about these weird feeling in my body. It’s like they’re telling me to do something and I can’t stop thinking about it!!! I have to give in to my thoughts!! When I’m having these weird feelings in my body I can not concentrate on anything else!! This has been happening to me everyday, my whole life!! Is this OCD? Is this an imbalance in my brain chemicals??? What meds should I take?? Prozac?

Response:

worry wart wrote: > Every morning when lying in bed I start thinking about these weird > feelings I have in my body. I feel that if I don’t get up and act on > these weird feelings in my body something bad might happen. It happens > every morning and several times throughout the day!! I just can’t stop > thinking about these weird feeling in my body. It’s like they’re telling > me to do something and I can’t stop thinking about it!!! I have to give > in to my thoughts!! When I’m having these weird feelings in my body I > can not concentrate on anything else!! This has been happening to me > everyday, my whole life!! Is this OCD? Is this an imbalance in my brain > chemicals??? What meds should I take?? Prozac?

You should see a doctor. Best advice I can think of. Good luck. Zorg

Response:

Hi Mom…=) I want to first say that you are an incredibly brave and wonderful mother for wanting to help your son as much as possible. So many people these days blow things off as "normal" child-like behavior, when there really might be a problem lurking. Although it has not yet been proven as a fact, I truly believe that OCD has some sort of a genetic component. I have OCD, as well as my sister. Every female in my immediate family has some sort of mental "problem", so that convinces me that these sorts of things run in families (not always, but often). As I was reading your post, I started wondering about a few things. Have you ever asked your son why he touches things as he does, or why he used to organize his cars in colors? What was his response? Although he is pretty young, I think it’d be a good idea to ask him how he feels when you move the furniture, or why it bothers him when things are in the "right" place. It’s important to find out exactly how he is feeling, and what the reasons are behind his actions. Is he afraid of odd numbers because he thinks they are "evil" or does he associates odd numbers with being "bad"? Does he touch people, tap his chin, etc. because he is trying to keep something bad from happening? These are the kinds of things that you need to find out. I’d be pretty careful in a family with a father, mother, brother, sister, aunt, etc. with OCD. I’ve met so many people online with family members that have had it for their entire lives and have always thought it was just a natural feeling that everyone experiences. I wasn’t surprised when I read that your son is a bright, smart little kid. I’ve read in various places that people with OCD tend to be more in-tune with themselves, probably because of always analyzing every little thought that comes through our minds. As for all of the questions you have regarding putting your son on medication if he does indeed have OCD, you’ll have to ask your doctor about that because it is different for everyone. Not everyone with OCD goes on medication. That is your family’s decision to make. I urge you to have you son checked out, even if he doesn’t end up being diagnosed. It is better to be sure than leave him untreated. OCD tends to get worse when it is not treated, at least in my own experience. If he is put on medication, he does not have to stay on it forever. He can wean off of it at any time, of course under supervision of his doctor. OCD can get very much under control if it is treated right and treated as soon as possible. Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Also, there are lots of good web sites out there about OCD. Try going to www.ocdhelp.org or www.ocdresource.com. They are very informative sites to learn about OCD. Shana shaynuh…@aol.com Visit the web site created for alt.support.ocd! http://members.aol.com/shaynuh512/page1.html I’m so sick of this roller coaster ride…I want my ticket back!!!

Response:

that sounds like ocd to me, though im not a sufferer, but i have  a dear friend who is it’s better to seek professional treatment as early as possible…in my opinion — " I hope you never lose your sense of wonder   You get your fill to eat   But always keep that hunger   May you never take one single breath for granted   God forbid love ever leave you empty handed   I hope you still feel small   When you stand besides the ocean   Whenever one door closes, I hope one more opens   Promise me you’ll give fate a fighting chance   And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance   I hope you dance " scott A JENKINS <SAJENK…@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:9gcgnr$cbpo$1@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have > noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son. From the time he was about > 4 years old, he’s had a lot of trouble keeping his hands to himself. I guess > I just thought it was a kid thing, he would reach out and touch his brother > on the arm, for example, repeatedly until finally his brother went bananas > and a fight would break out. I thought it was normal sibling stuff, but now > that he is older, the touching is no longer people. He will touch the table > repeatedly, or touch his chin, or even sometimes tap his chin on his > knee.(Which I imagine looks really odd to people when he’s out). stuff like > that. > When he was little, he would organize his cars like some color-coded parking > garage. His room was oddly neat for a kid his age, and if I put an airplane > where the trucks went he would correct me. He gets upset if I rearrange the > furniture. That’s not where it goes, he says. The couch doesn’t "belong" > there. > He says he doesn’t like odd numbers, and that is why he can’t wait until he > is ten. But at a local amusement park recently, he insisted that we sit in > car number 1 on nearly every ride. When I pointed out to him that one was an > odd number, he said that it didn’t count because one was the first, so it > was different than the other odd numbers. > He is incredibly emotional most days and worries about everything. What if > this happens, or that happens. We are Catholic, and he recently made his > first confession and communion, and ever since he is terrified that he will > sin and not make it to confession before he dies in some accident. He is > positive he is going to hell. I assure him that God doesn’t work that way, > but he insists. > Also, he makes weird sound effects. Grunts and roars and things. Again and > again til I think my head will explode. Not like normal play kind of sound > effects. This is the same sound repeated again and again, even when not > playing any kind of pretend game that use sound effects.Even at times when > it is completely inappropriate, like school or church.  When I tell him to > quit it, he says that he can’t, " It’s the urges." When he gets the urges, > he has to do it. Those are his words. > Also, he is afraid of odd things. He’s afraid of buttons. At first I thought > he was overdramatizing because he didn’t especially like button-down shirts. > They are sort of geeky in kidworld. So fine, I didn’t buy him any, no > problem. But then he wouldn’t hug me if I had buttons on my shirt and would > ask me to take it off. He absolutely will not touch any clothing with > buttons on it. > He is an incredibly bright child and learned to read at 3 with practically > no help. Mostly from Sesame Street and stuff. He is in the Gifted class at > school with an above average IQ, but socially he has very few freinds. He’s > a sweet kid, very affectionate and polite. Just can’t seem to keep quiet and > keep his hands to himself and quit worrying so much. > My husband and I are just recently noticing all these things and coming to > the realization that something may be wrong. I will call his pediatrician > Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like > OCD to all of you? If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? > Yikes. My husband does not take medication and I did not notice his until he > told me, and I rarely see him do anything odd like those things. When he is > under alot of stress he sometimes moves his lips like he is counting, but > that’s about it. He’s the one that thinks our son may be OCD, but I am > unsure. I just think something is wrong. > Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will > always need medication?  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I > focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus > seems to be on touching that table. How do you solve problems when your > focus is shifted like that? > I know I am rambling and I am sorry. I am just incredibly worried and would > appreciate any input any of you may have. > Thanks, > a worried mom

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Hi worried mom, I suggest you copy your letter to: ocdandparent…@yahoogroups.com Below I will copy some of their spiel to try to help you find the group online. I am a mum with an 11 year old daughter who I believe has ocd.  Its is a terrible worry.  With my little, but growing knowledge I have to say you son sounds like he had ocd, and maybe sid-sensory integration disorder.  Anyway I strongly suggest to mail to this group, as you will receive support and excellent advice. In order to see the reply you need to sign up at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocdandparenting, and also email the listserver below.  You then get copies of all the groups mailings sent to you. I first tried posting in the news group and go very few replies.  I felt ocd may be a very self absorbed thing, and that the group was not really supportive. Whether or not your son needs treatment – a combination of medication and behavioural therapy, depends how much his obsessions and compulsions are affecting his life.  Most of the group do recommend early treatment. I do hope you find help and that you connect with this group. Take care Alice You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing lists…@vm.marist.edu .   In the body of your message write:  subscribe OCD-L your name.   You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocdandparenting .   Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D.   Our list moderators are Wendy Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy Robinson, and Jackie Stout.   Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lhark…@bellsouth.net . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– From: scott A JENKINS <SAJENK…@prodigy.net> Newsgroups: alt.support.ocd Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:33 AM Subject: ocd? Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son. From the time he was about 4 years old, he’s had a lot of trouble keeping his hands to himself. I guess I just thought it was a kid thing, he would reach out and touch his brother on the arm, for example, repeatedly until finally his brother went bananas and a fight would break out. I thought it was normal sibling stuff, but now that he is older, the touching is no longer people. He will touch the table repeatedly, or touch his chin, or even sometimes tap his chin on his knee.(Which I imagine looks really odd to people when he’s out). stuff like that. When he was little, he would organize his cars like some color-coded parking garage. His room was oddly neat for a kid his age, and if I put an airplane where the trucks went he would correct me. He gets upset if I rearrange the furniture. That’s not where it goes, he says. The couch doesn’t "belong" there. He says he doesn’t like odd numbers, and that is why he can’t wait until he is ten. But at a local amusement park recently, he insisted that we sit in car number 1 on nearly every ride. When I pointed out to him that one was an odd number, he said that it didn’t count because one was the first, so it was different than the other odd numbers. He is incredibly emotional most days and worries about everything. What if this happens, or that happens. We are Catholic, and he recently made his first confession and communion, and ever since he is terrified that he will sin and not make it to confession before he dies in some accident. He is positive he is going to hell. I assure him that God doesn’t work that way, but he insists. Also, he makes weird sound effects. Grunts and roars and things. Again and again til I think my head will explode. Not like normal play kind of sound effects. This is the same sound repeated again and again, even when not playing any kind of pretend game that use sound effects.Even at times when it is completely inappropriate, like school or church.  When I tell him to quit it, he says that he can’t, " It’s the urges." When he gets the urges, he has to do it. Those are his words. Also, he is afraid of odd things. He’s afraid of buttons. At first I thought he was overdramatizing because he didn’t especially like button-down shirts. They are sort of geeky in kidworld. So fine, I didn’t buy him any, no problem. But then he wouldn’t hug me if I had buttons on my shirt and would ask me to take it off. He absolutely will not touch any clothing with buttons on it. He is an incredibly bright child and learned to read at 3 with practically no help. Mostly from Sesame Street and stuff. He is in the Gifted class at school with an above average IQ, but socially he has very few freinds. He’s a sweet kid, very affectionate and polite. Just can’t seem to keep quiet and keep his hands to himself and quit worrying so much. My husband and I are just recently noticing all these things and coming to the realization that something may be wrong. I will call his pediatrician Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like OCD to all of you? If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? Yikes. My husband does not take medication and I did not notice his until he told me, and I rarely see him do anything odd like those things. When he is under alot of stress he sometimes moves his lips like he is counting, but that’s about it. He’s the one that thinks our son may be OCD, but I am unsure. I just think something is wrong. Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will always need medication?  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus seems to be on touching that table. How do you solve problems when your focus is shifted like that? I know I am rambling and I am sorry. I am just incredibly worried and would appreciate any input any of you may have. Thanks, a worried mom — scott A JENKINS <SAJENK…@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:9gcgnr$cbpo$1@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com… > Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have > noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son. From the time he was about > 4 years old, he’s had a lot of trouble keeping his hands to himself. I guess > I just thought it was a kid thing, he would reach out and touch his brother > on the arm, for example, repeatedly until finally his brother went bananas > and a fight would break out. I thought it was normal sibling stuff, but now > that he is older, the touching is no longer people. He will touch the table > repeatedly, or touch his chin, or even sometimes tap his chin on his > knee.(Which I imagine looks really odd to people when he’s out). stuff like > that. > When he was little, he would organize his cars like some color-coded parking > garage. His room was oddly neat for a kid his age, and if I put an airplane > where the trucks went he would correct me. He gets upset if I rearrange the > furniture. That’s not where it goes, he says. The couch doesn’t "belong" > there. > He says he doesn’t like odd numbers, and that is why he can’t wait until he > is ten. But at a local amusement park recently, he insisted that we sit in > car number 1 on nearly every ride. When I pointed out to him that one was an > odd number, he said that it didn’t count because one was the first, so it > was different than the other odd numbers. > He is incredibly emotional most days and worries about everything. What if > this happens, or that happens. We are Catholic, and he recently made his > first confession and communion, and ever since he is terrified that he will > sin and not make it to confession before he dies in some accident. He is > positive he is going to hell. I assure him that God doesn’t work that way, > but he insists. > Also, he makes weird sound effects. Grunts and roars and things. Again and > again til I think my head will explode. Not like normal play kind of sound > effects. This is the same sound repeated again and again, even when not > playing any kind of pretend game that use sound effects.Even at times when > it is completely inappropriate, like school or church.  When I tell him to > quit it, he says that he can’t, " It’s the urges." When he gets the urges, > he has to do it. Those are his words. > Also, he is afraid of odd things. He’s afraid of buttons. At first I thought > he was overdramatizing because he didn’t especially like button-down shirts. > They are sort of geeky in kidworld. So fine, I didn’t buy him any, no > problem. But then he wouldn’t hug me if I had buttons on my shirt and would > ask me to take it off. He absolutely will not touch any clothing with > buttons on it. > He is an incredibly bright child and learned to read at 3 with practically > no help. Mostly from Sesame Street and stuff. He is in the Gifted class at > school with an above average IQ, but socially he has very few freinds. He’s > a sweet kid, very affectionate and polite. Just can’t seem to keep quiet and > keep his hands to himself and quit worrying so much. > My husband and I are just recently noticing all these things and coming to > the realization that something may be wrong. I will call his pediatrician > Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like > OCD to all of you? If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? > Yikes. My husband does not take medication and I did not notice his until he > told me, and I rarely see him do anything odd like those things. When he is > under alot of stress he sometimes moves his lips like he is counting, but > that’s about it. He’s the one that thinks our son may be OCD, but I am > unsure. I just think something is wrong. > Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will > always need medication?  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I > focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus

… read more »

Response:

Thanks to all of you who responded with words of encouragement. I have been checking out the links Shana provided, and learning alot. But the more I Iearn, the more worried I become. I have not heard of Aspergers Disorder, but I will look into that. I thought perhaps Tourettes Syndrome, because of the noises and stuff, but then that leaves the rest of it unexplainable, all the odd fears and things. I guess I will find out tomorrow what the pediatrician says about it all. Thanks to all of you, Erin(Worried Mom)

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Not to add upon your worries mom but OCD can be paired up with ADHD, Tourettes, Autism and Aspergers along with a lot of other things. My son has ADHD, OCD and Tourettes! It was scary to handle at first but it describes him to a T! The most important thing is to get some help and to start treatment early. Remember, this kind of thinking is really a sort of torture for your child. He deserves to have a normal train of thought! You have already taken the first step to help him by taking him to your doctor! Let us know how it goes. Amy

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  Hi,    Have you ever heard of Aspergers Disorder? It has componets of ocd.  If you go to Alt.support autism you may find parents with childern that sound alot like yours.       Good Luck     Vicky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -scott A JENKINS wrote: > Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have > noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son. From the time he was about > 4 years old, he’s had a lot of trouble keeping his hands to himself. I guess > I just thought it was a kid thing, he would reach out and touch his brother > on the arm, for example, repeatedly until finally his brother went bananas > and a fight would break out. I thought it was normal sibling stuff, but now > that he is older, the touching is no longer people. He will touch the table > repeatedly, or touch his chin, or even sometimes tap his chin on his > knee.(Which I imagine looks really odd to people when he’s out). stuff like > that. > When he was little, he would organize his cars like some color-coded parking > garage. His room was oddly neat for a kid his age, and if I put an airplane > where the trucks went he would correct me. He gets upset if I rearrange the > furniture. That’s not where it goes, he says. The couch doesn’t "belong" > there. > He says he doesn’t like odd numbers, and that is why he can’t wait until he > is ten. But at a local amusement park recently, he insisted that we sit in > car number 1 on nearly every ride. When I pointed out to him that one was an > odd number, he said that it didn’t count because one was the first, so it > was different than the other odd numbers. > He is incredibly emotional most days and worries about everything. What if > this happens, or that happens. We are Catholic, and he recently made his > first confession and communion, and ever since he is terrified that he will > sin and not make it to confession before he dies in some accident. He is > positive he is going to hell. I assure him that God doesn’t work that way, > but he insists. > Also, he makes weird sound effects. Grunts and roars and things. Again and > again til I think my head will explode. Not like normal play kind of sound > effects. This is the same sound repeated again and again, even when not > playing any kind of pretend game that use sound effects.Even at times when > it is completely inappropriate, like school or church.  When I tell him to > quit it, he says that he can’t, " It’s the urges." When he gets the urges, > he has to do it. Those are his words. > Also, he is afraid of odd things. He’s afraid of buttons. At first I thought > he was overdramatizing because he didn’t especially like button-down shirts. > They are sort of geeky in kidworld. So fine, I didn’t buy him any, no > problem. But then he wouldn’t hug me if I had buttons on my shirt and would > ask me to take it off. He absolutely will not touch any clothing with > buttons on it. > He is an incredibly bright child and learned to read at 3 with practically > no help. Mostly from Sesame Street and stuff. He is in the Gifted class at > school with an above average IQ, but socially he has very few freinds. He’s > a sweet kid, very affectionate and polite. Just can’t seem to keep quiet and > keep his hands to himself and quit worrying so much. > My husband and I are just recently noticing all these things and coming to > the realization that something may be wrong. I will call his pediatrician > Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like > OCD to all of you? If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? > Yikes. My husband does not take medication and I did not notice his until he > told me, and I rarely see him do anything odd like those things. When he is > under alot of stress he sometimes moves his lips like he is counting, but > that’s about it. He’s the one that thinks our son may be OCD, but I am > unsure. I just think something is wrong. > Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will > always need medication?  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I > focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus > seems to be on touching that table. How do you solve problems when your > focus is shifted like that? > I know I am rambling and I am sorry. I am just incredibly worried and would > appreciate any input any of you may have. > Thanks, > a worried mom

Response:

Hi there, I can understand where ur worry is coming from. Your son sounds like he has a touch of ocd. However, it’s not always as bad as it may seem. A – it could be quite mild…b) I have ocd and it DOES get better, detecting it at a young age will also help him to modify is behvious as he grows older. I mean tryinbg to change habits of a long    time is always hard, but since he is young it will be a lot easier. I was diagnosed at 17 – only a year ago, it took a few months for meds and therapy to have an effect. Infact the therapy was mainly just talking things thru with my Mum, now those awful numbers which caused me so much trouble earlier are forgotten and the whole " touch this or else" thing is gone. which is a relief!! It shouyldn’t affect him as far as his grades go and it won’t affect his friendships etc. it’s just a bit of a pain, but who knows he could get rid of it before it causes any major troubles!! anyway good luck, Amrit! =)

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Worried mom, I don’t have children, but I have OCD and so does my sister. I didn’t develop my OCD until I was in my teens but my older sister developed hers preschool so I will try and offer you my humble observations: > Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have > noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son.

There are different opinions as to what "causes" OCD but my psychiatrist and I both believe it has a genetic component. The fact that your husband has it would set off definite alarms for me. >I will call his pediatrician > Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like > OCD to all of you?

I am not a doctor so don’t take what I tell you as gospel, but everything you just described (I snipped for space)  definitely sounds like OCD to me. I remember thinking in the same fearful ways when I was younger.  >If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? Nobody *has* to do anything. There is a possibility that they will suggest medication. Do not be afraid of it if they do. I am on medication and it has made a world of difference to me. However, there are different ways to fight OCD……..such as CBT (cognitive behavorial therapy) or even a combination of therapies. > Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will > always need medication?

My OCD waxes and wanes. I have good periods (lasting several months) and bad periods.  I am 40 years old and it has never totally left me (or my sister). And no, even if they suggest medications for him, it may not be forever. Some people take medication during stressful periods, and then wean themselves off. Personally, my OCD is rather severe so I have accepted the fact that I will probably have to be on medication forever. But everyone is different, everyone has different levels of severity. Some types of OCD immobilize you, other types are more annoying but you can still function……….  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I > focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus > seems to be on touching that table. How do you solve problems when your > focus is shifted like that?

It’s very difficult. Things don’t always get done which is why OCD can be totally debilitating sometimes. You are very fortunate that you are catching his "problem" early.(regardless of whatever the diagnosis turns out to be). I think my life would have been drastically different had I known what was wrong with me before age 31. I would bypass the pediatritian and go straight to a child psychiatrist if your insurance allows it. Many "regular" doctors are not that up-to-date on OCD. If you do go, and he does not give you a satisifactory answer, go to someone else. A psychiatrist. Trust your husband’s instinct. I think he sees himself in your son and wants to spare him some of the agony he must have gone through as a child. Good luck and welcome to the group. Ida

Response:

Hello. My husband was diagnosed with OCD several years ago, and I have noticed some odd habits of our nine-year old son. From the time he was about 4 years old, he’s had a lot of trouble keeping his hands to himself. I guess I just thought it was a kid thing, he would reach out and touch his brother on the arm, for example, repeatedly until finally his brother went bananas and a fight would break out. I thought it was normal sibling stuff, but now that he is older, the touching is no longer people. He will touch the table repeatedly, or touch his chin, or even sometimes tap his chin on his knee.(Which I imagine looks really odd to people when he’s out). stuff like that. When he was little, he would organize his cars like some color-coded parking garage. His room was oddly neat for a kid his age, and if I put an airplane where the trucks went he would correct me. He gets upset if I rearrange the furniture. That’s not where it goes, he says. The couch doesn’t "belong" there. He says he doesn’t like odd numbers, and that is why he can’t wait until he is ten. But at a local amusement park recently, he insisted that we sit in car number 1 on nearly every ride. When I pointed out to him that one was an odd number, he said that it didn’t count because one was the first, so it was different than the other odd numbers. He is incredibly emotional most days and worries about everything. What if this happens, or that happens. We are Catholic, and he recently made his first confession and communion, and ever since he is terrified that he will sin and not make it to confession before he dies in some accident. He is positive he is going to hell. I assure him that God doesn’t work that way, but he insists. Also, he makes weird sound effects. Grunts and roars and things. Again and again til I think my head will explode. Not like normal play kind of sound effects. This is the same sound repeated again and again, even when not playing any kind of pretend game that use sound effects.Even at times when it is completely inappropriate, like school or church.  When I tell him to quit it, he says that he can’t, " It’s the urges." When he gets the urges, he has to do it. Those are his words. Also, he is afraid of odd things. He’s afraid of buttons. At first I thought he was overdramatizing because he didn’t especially like button-down shirts. They are sort of geeky in kidworld. So fine, I didn’t buy him any, no problem. But then he wouldn’t hug me if I had buttons on my shirt and would ask me to take it off. He absolutely will not touch any clothing with buttons on it. He is an incredibly bright child and learned to read at 3 with practically no help. Mostly from Sesame Street and stuff. He is in the Gifted class at school with an above average IQ, but socially he has very few freinds. He’s a sweet kid, very affectionate and polite. Just can’t seem to keep quiet and keep his hands to himself and quit worrying so much. My husband and I are just recently noticing all these things and coming to the realization that something may be wrong. I will call his pediatrician Monday, but I am very fearful of what is next. Does all of this sound like OCD to all of you? If it is OCD, will he have to be put on medication? Yikes. My husband does not take medication and I did not notice his until he told me, and I rarely see him do anything odd like those things. When he is under alot of stress he sometimes moves his lips like he is counting, but that’s about it. He’s the one that thinks our son may be OCD, but I am unsure. I just think something is wrong. Does OCD get better? If he is put on medication, does that mean he will always need medication?  Where does this leave him? When I get stressed I focus on solving the problem at hand. When he is stressed all of his focus seems to be on touching that table. How do you solve problems when your focus is shifted like that? I know I am rambling and I am sorry. I am just incredibly worried and would appreciate any input any of you may have. Thanks, a worried mom

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